Where did Steve get the melody For the Love of God??

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<Mike>
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I think he means this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=_iaamkUEF_A

you'll hear what he's talkin bout from 00.10 to 00.18 something.

Well it sure sounds like it but the chance that it is a pure coincidence is very high.
1. the chord progression is not so hard to figure out, I'm sure those chords have been used after each other more than one time.
2. also that melody kinda build itself up. Also if he watched this show sometime that melody could have stuck in his mind and affected the writing of the song.

It's no big deal though, this would never be called a stealing. I've been involved in these kinds of stories before where the simularity has been way more than 8 seconds and those songs I'm talkin about got away without being sued.

So my honest opinion... Get over it.

Edit: Sorry ded I was writing this message while you wrote yours so I didn't see that you posted the link too.
Zeds.Ded
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np Mike ;)
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lydian2000
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Just listened to it the link you provided... :lol: :lol: :lol:

even from 00.10 to 00.18...wow this is so close.... :lol: :lol:

that kinda ends the discussion for me right there.

:roll:
Ginner_321
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Let's hurry up and close this thread...

It's a waste of Bandwidth.

Cheers,
SPQR
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Ginner_321 wrote:Let's hurry up and close this thread...

It's a waste of Bandwidth.

Cheers,
Thats agreed here
Yozhik
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Ginner_321 wrote:Let's hurry up and close this thread...

It's a waste of Bandwidth.

Cheers,

“Hurry up and close the thread” won’t make the obvious go away and stating it’s a waste of bandwidth is just leading a decent discussion into your personal unproven opinion.

This thread is relevant about Steve Vai, and other agreed that the song sounds similar so why do I need your judgment call if you don’t like it post on other threads.


Yozhik
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lydian2000 wrote:Just listened to it the link you provided... :lol: :lol: :lol:

even from 00.10 to 00.18...wow this is so close.... :lol: :lol:

that kinda ends the discussion for me right there.

:roll:


Lydian2000,

I wonder what the music score looks like for comparison for the orchestra between both the score and Steve's song?


Yozhik
nickcat0
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According to some psychological research , everything we've ever seen , heard or experienced is in our memory . The problem we have as humans is that we can't recall all those memories , but they are in there somewhere .

So it is very possible that Steve heard the Kung Fu tune as a kid , and 15 years later he either consciously or subconsciously drew upon it when writing FTLOG .

I don't think it's a big deal .
Johnny Jam
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Does anybody know how much time Steve needed to write FTLOG?
Yozhik
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nickcat0 wrote:According to some psychological research , everything we've ever seen , heard or experienced is in our memory . The problem we have as humans is that we can't recall all those memories , but they are in there somewhere .

So it is very possible that Steve heard the Kung Fu tune as a kid , and 15 years later he either consciously or subconsciously drew upon it when writing FTLOG .

I don't think it's a big deal .

Nickcat0,

But here is how I came exactly to that decision.

I listened to Steve early on with David lee Roth, and other things he was doing
during the Eighties. Then I didn’t really listen to him much and didn’t even hear F.T.L.O.G. until very recently on Youtube as many people posted different versions.

But I think that’s why I noticed while die hard fans of Steve who were born later didn’t.

That score for kung fu is distinctive and as far as I know I have never heard anything comparable, so that’s why I amazes me that older people who are Vai fans wouldn’t recognize the close similarity.

As for it being a big deal or not I wouldn’t know because I there isn’t anyone here as of yet who specializes in copywright law and could state firmly or not if there is an infraction. I mean these kinds of things happen to many other artists throughout the history of modern music.

Yozhik
Zeds.Ded
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i do a law class in college, you can sue someone who has a product that looks exactly like your product as long as you designed that product (have patent and all that stuff) but if the product is change a certain amount, then you cant sue, or at least wont win case (depending on which court you take it to)

referring to the case of Guinness versus John Fitzgerald - CEO of Carroll's Irish gift shop (my friends dad, this is how i know about it)

Carroll's were using the Guinness pint glass with the harp on it, on their T-shirts and key rings and all that, Guinness sued them, so Carroll's changed the design just enough to get away with it, now its just a black and white pint glass with something written on it, i cant remember what it was.

im thinking that the same sort of rules apply in music, i mean, it sounds a small bit like it for like 2 seconds of the song, but its not enough to take legal action and win a case upon! i dunno, im no expert but i severely doubt anything would stand legally.


(what do you know i do learn stuff in school!)
Yozhik
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Zeds.Ded wrote:i do a law class in college, you can sue someone who has a product that looks exactly like your product as long as you designed that product (have patent and all that stuff) but if the product is change a certain amount, then you cant sue, or at least wont win case (depending on which court you take it to)

referring to the case of Guinness versus John Fitzgerald - CEO of Carroll's Irish gift shop (my friends dad, this is how i know about it)

Carroll's were using the Guinness pint glass with the harp on it, on their T-shirts and key rings and all that, Guinness sued them, so Carroll's changed the design just enough to get away with it, now its just a black and white pint glass with something written on it, i cant remember what it was.

im thinking that the same sort of rules apply in music, i mean, it sounds a small bit like it for like 2 seconds of the song, but its not enough to take legal action and win a case upon! i dunno, im no expert but i severely doubt anything would stand legally.


(what do you know i do learn stuff in school!)


Zeds.Ded,

That bit about the Guinness is mighty interesting and the end result was they had to modify their logo to conform to the legal owner of the official Guinness logo. As you stated there is a curve that artist’s in this case Commercial art must be indistinct from an original inspiration to avoid the courts. I was looking at the Carroll’s Irish Gift Stores online portal. They must have settled out of court now or contracted with Guinness because they are selling online mugs and other merchandise with the registered trademark from Guinness.

My next door neighbor is straight from Cork county Ireland and we have many fine discussions about politics, why can’t they sell Irish ham in the U.S., and why the American potatoes are watery and tasteless (a point I agree with) not at all like the wonderful Irish variety of Potato (which I have never tried but wish too).

Now to the point of how many notes make a case.

I still theorize that if it’s a signature melody like the two famous notes Queens’s bass player played from “Under Pressure” with a distinct rhythm and timing I would state it’s not about how many actual notes in sum total.

Vanilla Ice lost that case in court partly because he sampled it verbatim and was foolish enough to state the rhythm was “different” in court.


Counsel could stipulate that the signature notes are almost alike except for Vai’s cascading down and then back up again. But there is the signature notes that start the song and repeat through the solo etcetera.

“The Best of ZZ Top
In 1973, ZZ Top recorded their classic hit "La Grange" which was featured on their third album "Tres Hombres". A signature riff tune, "La Grange" was ZZ Top's first top 40 hit, and "Tres Hombres" went on to become their first gold album.
"La Grange" subsequently appeared on "Best of ZZ Top", which was released in 1977.
"La Grange appeared again on another best-of album, "ZZ Top Six Pack" in 1987.
In testimony of its staying power, "La Grange" appeared for the fourth time on their third best-of album, "Greatest Hits" in 1992.
Deja Vu on Boogie Chillen
In 1991, Bernard Besman heard "La Grange" and got a severe case of deja vu. Then in his eighties and head of La Cienega Music, the copyright owner of "Boogie Chillen", Besman decided to take a run against ZZ Top. By 1996, the judge dismissed part of the suit stating that the 1948 single and 1950 remake were in the public domain.
Consequently, the issue of whether the ZZ Top recordings infringe on the 1970 version of "Boogie Chillen" was supposed to have been heard sometime in 1997. “

I heard about this example but didn’t follow up on the court case outcome.

Yozhik
seljer
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eh, I think you're making way to big of a deal out of this
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Jeroen
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Vanilla Ice case is irrelevant to this, because that was a sample. There is a diffrence between using something that someone else made (a piece of a track /sample) vs something that you made yourself although based/quoting/inspired by someone elses track.

There's not even a verbatim quote of notes in the example you stated vs FTLOG, however, even if there was, copyright law leaves room for 'fair use', which for example can be determined by length of the quote vs overal length (percentage used). Vanilla ICE would be in trouble if he made the track himself sounding like the original (thus without samples), because it runs for the entire length of both songs. Besides that, that particular riff doesn't just sound the same, it *is* the same, which isn't the case in FTLOG vs the examples you posted.

Here's a relevant case and you'll noticed it the suit wasn't about copyright infrigment but plagiarism:

"when fellow Greek musician Stavros Logarides heard "Titles" he was furious, claiming Vangelis had stolen the melody from one of his compositions called "City of Violets." Once a member of a 1970s band called Poll and actually a friend of Vangelis at that time, Logarides sued Vangelis for plagiarism in 1987. When the case came to court, Vangelis set up synthesizers in the courtroom and played for the judge and all others present, though less for entertainment purposes and more so he could demonstrate his compositional process. The judge ruled that "Titles" was a Vangelis original, being a strong, vibrant piece of music, whereas "City of Violets" was fairly sombre and somewhat mournful by comparison, and any similarities in the melody were minor."

(source: wiki page on Vangelis Papathanassiou)


Also relevant is the statute of limitations:
From what point in time does the 3-year statute of limitations begin to run?

The general rule is that the statute of limitations starts from the date of the last infringing act. However, the courts are divided as to how this applies. Some courts hold that you can recover your damages for the entirety of the infringement so long as a lawsuit is filed within 3 years of the last infringing act; others limit damages to those acts which occurred within the three years leading up to the lawsuit.

For the Love of God was written in the 80's, so motion denied, case dismissed. ;)

J
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