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All those pentatonics

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:35 pm
by Stringbreaker
Unlike the other set of scales, I have not researched which pentatonics are in use and which are new "discoveries". The first set I am listing are derivatives of the major pentatonic scale. While the other four modes I listed may have names I have not tried to find them. If any of you know the names or can tell me a reliable source for them, please let me know. I will be posting more of them in an ordering (I think) that will present the most useful first. If I am wrong, well, I need to study them more.

More pentatonics to follow. In case you are wondering there are 330 possibilities for penatatonic scales, with an unknown number of them musically interesting. :wink:

The breaking of strings is the beginning of wisdom...

c d e g a - 2 2 3 2 3 - M2 M2 m3 M2 m3 – Major Pentatonic scale
c d f g a# - 2 3 2 3 2 - M2 m3 M2 m3 M2
c d# f g# a# - 3 2 3 2 2 - m3 M2 m3 M2 M2
c d f g a - 2 3 2 2 3 - M2 m3 M2 M2 m3
c d# f g a# - 3 2 2 3 2 - m3 M2 M2 m3 M2

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:16 am
by Masi
Check out Slonimsky "Thesaurus of scales and melodic patterns"
It pretty much has this covered to the point of ridiculousnes.
But yeah...it's all in good fun...

The next set...

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:32 am
by Stringbreaker
Finding names for any of these is a little on the difficult side.

The breaking of strings is the beginning of wisdom...

c d e f# a - 2 2 2 3 3 - M2 M2 M2 m3 m3
c d e g a# - 2 2 3 3 2 - M2 M2 m3 m3 M2
c d f g# a# - 2 3 3 2 2 - M2 m3 m3 M2 M2
c d# f# g# a# - 3 3 2 2 2 - m3 m3 M2 M2 M2
c d# f g a - 3 2 2 2 3 - m3 M2 M2 M2 m3

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:44 am
by sunai
Masi wrote:Check out Slonimsky "Thesaurus of scales and melodic patterns"
It pretty much has this covered to the point of ridiculousnes.
But yeah...it's all in good fun...
i got that book like a month ago and was pretty much stumped seeing it in Stave :oops: . Can some one explain to me how to read stuff in stave??Or at least post some links which can get me started???

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:53 am
by precario
This is a great site. Very helpful: http://www.musictheory.net/

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:51 pm
by Obsidious
Wow, I just realized that uber cool lick I made was a Pentatonic Scale. :|

I shoulda know. :lol:

A third set...

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:58 am
by Stringbreaker
Yeah, I know...these are all in the key of C. This ignores the cool way of deriving the other scales by changing the root note: c d e f# g -> d e f# g c -> e f# g c d ... and so on. I just like comparing them with the same pitch at the start.

The breaking of strings is the beginning of wisdom...

c d e f# g# - 2 2 2 2 4 - M2 M2 M2 M2 M3
c d e f# a# - 2 2 2 4 2 - M2 M2 M2 M3 M2
c d e g# a# - 2 2 4 2 2 - M2 M2 M3 M2 M2
c d f# g# a# - 2 4 2 2 2 - M2 M3 M2 M2 M2
c e f# g# a# - 4 2 2 2 2 - M3 M2 M2 M2 M2

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:55 am
by lydian2000
Do you actually play music with all that?:twisted:

(thats the bitterness talking, coz I wish I had such scale knowledge :wink: :lol: )


:peace

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:12 am
by Stringbreaker
No, all of this is for warm up before and study afterwards. As I think I mentioned elsewhere, when I am actually playing, I am following the trail of the sound. I listen hard to the instrument and even when just sustainiing a simgle note I start hearing melodies appear. I have no idea whether it is a hallucination or my mind finding patterns in the harmonics, but I study the theory afterwards to see what I was doing.

I have been known to use the scales for compositional purposes, but that is also "happy accident" time. I take a scale, prepare diatonic chord forms from them and play them. Sometimes I just hear boring forms and move on to something else. Other times I hear a melody over the chords and I put down the books and start playing. Oddly, depending on mood, the same chords can produce different responses in me. Unlike the theory stuff, I have no real answer why music will appear in response to theory on some days and ignore it on others. On good days it is like I am listening to heaven's radio: it works, it's perfect and I can't take any credit for it. Other days I can't bring it in no matter what I do. So I keep trying with every tool I have.

I am applying the filter of the rational to the unexplainable. Even if I fail part of my nature is to keep trying. It's who I am for better or worse.

The breaking of strings is the beginning of wisdom.

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:58 am
by Stephen Brown
The breaking of strings is the beginning of wisdom.
^
No offence but don't you think your maybe taking away from it's impact.

Great topic by the way.

Impact? No offense taken, but...

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:14 pm
by Stringbreaker
If you are implying I could have an impact on music, even a detrimental one, that is too much flattery. I am posting material that means something to me. If I am impacting you, try the material out for yourself. If it helps you improve your music, then you are improving music. If it doesn't help you, move on to something else and maybe you've learned something anyway.

Any time you have broken a string, you have pushed something past its limits. That is the time to stop and evaluate what you were doing when it broke. If you are learning something new for whatever reason, then THAT is the real beginning of wisdom. We should be learning something new all the time, but too often it is when we are forced to suddenly stop what we are doing is when it happens. Like when we break a string for instance. Therefore...

The breaking of strings is the beginning of wisdom...

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:17 pm
by smj
Check out Jerry Bergonzi's Inside Improvisation Series Volume II: Pentatonic scales.

Topics would include:

Minor 6 pentatonic
Major b2 pentatonic
min7(b5) pentatonic
major(b6) pent
whole tone pentatonic
poly-pentatonic scales

Not only does it have examples written out, but has a cd with Jerry just playing the s@$t out of each one of them.

Sean Meredith-Jones
http://www.seanmeredithjones.com

Re: All those pentatonics

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:30 pm
by smj
Stringbreaker wrote:
c d e g a - 2 2 3 2 3 - M2 M2 m3 M2 m3 – Major Pentatonic scale
c d f g a# - 2 3 2 3 2 - M2 m3 M2 m3 M2
c d# f g# a# - 3 2 3 2 2 - m3 M2 m3 M2 M2
c d f g a - 2 3 2 2 3 - M2 m3 M2 M2 m3
c d# f g a# - 3 2 2 3 2 - m3 M2 M2 m3 M2
Have to say, I find the spelling of these a little awkward. I would have written them this way.... but I guess it's just preference really.

the 2nd one: C D F G Bb (Bb maj/Gmin inversion)
third one: C Eb F Ab Bb (Abmaj/Cmin inversion)
fourth one: C D F G A (FMaj/Dmin inversion)
fifth one: C Eb F G Bb (Cmin7 pent or Ebmaj inversion)

I guess it depends on whether you like seeing sharps or flats. I find it easier to see them in terms of flats.

Still, each one is cool if you want to explore the ambigous quality of each one in the way you would explore the modes of a major scale.

Sean Meredith-Jones
http://www.seanmeredithjones.com

Re: All those pentatonics

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:20 am
by j3
smj wrote:
Stringbreaker wrote:
c d e g a - 2 2 3 2 3 - M2 M2 m3 M2 m3 – Major Pentatonic scale
c d f g a# - 2 3 2 3 2 - M2 m3 M2 m3 M2
c d# f g# a# - 3 2 3 2 2 - m3 M2 m3 M2 M2
c d f g a - 2 3 2 2 3 - M2 m3 M2 M2 m3
c d# f g a# - 3 2 2 3 2 - m3 M2 M2 m3 M2
Have to say, I find the spelling of these a little awkward. I would have written them this way.... but I guess it's just preference really.

the 2nd one: C D F G Bb (Bb maj/Gbmin inversion)
third one: C Eb F Ab Bb (Abmaj/Cmin inversion)
fourth one: C D F G A (FMaj/Dmin inversion)
fifth one: C Eb F G Bb (Cmin7 pent or Ebmaj inversion)

I guess it depends on whether you like seeing sharps or flats. I find it easier to see them in terms of flats.

Still, each one is cool if you want to explore the ambigous quality of each one in the way you would explore the modes of a major scale.

Sean Meredith-Jones
http://www.seanmeredithjones.com
I don't agree with some of those names/ but it does point to another way to name scales. The way I would name them in this system which I would associate with a Larry Carlton style would be:
c d e g a - Am7/Em7
c d f g a# -A#/Gm
c d# f g# a# - G#/Fm7
c d f g a - Dm/Am7
c d# f g a#-Eb69

Names issue

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:57 am
by Stringbreaker
I had mentioned when I began posting this series that I had not done the research to properly identify names for them. What I am posting is the raw development as opposed to finished product. I invited opinions as to the proper names for them and I am glad to see the input.

I presented everything as sharps for the raw description from the old rule of thumb: when ascending use sharps, when descending, use flats. I am presenting these scales exclusively in ascending form. This is not to say that my approach is better or even the most appropriate one, I just needed to have an approach that was internally consistent: It didn't have to be the best. If one of you can come up with a better approach for describing the letter spelling for all 330 possible pentatonics, you will have gone farther than me, and I would very likely adopt the method.

I do have a project where I created a list of 5 note chords and as many closed inversions as possible. If I can get it together to clean that list up I will send some of it out: it might be useful for comparison purposes.

Describing them in terms of chord form seem an interesting approach with one caveat: I am providing them with an implied root note of C. While I do have another list where I attempt to address all keys, digging out the enharmonic equivalents is taking longer (or maybe I'm needing more sleep) than I had planned. This is why for these scales I am taking a "post them and see" approach.

The breaking of strings is the beginning of wisdom...