backstop or not ?

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loran333
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hi guys

I have a lots of trouble these days with the tremolo (edge & lopro) , you know the "return issue". this kill me ....

usualy when I tune 0 cents on a 12th harmonic on the G strings after a dive ' till the strings fall
(and recheck with plenty dive more) and then pull the trem up (up to a 5th for me) the tuner read +06 , +07 (everytime)

this, is going worst and worst as time past.

I want to put the backstop just for "the return in pitch everytime" I dont care about the double strings bend and
the breaking strings. so minimum pressure. I m looking for the esp backstop

here s what I know ! , ? , maybe not , so teach me !!!

the good :
1 - return in pitch everytime !!!!!!!!!! wouahh just can believe
2 - don t mind about the tremolo gravity ?
3 - more sound ?

the bad :
4 - no longer flutter but still possible a little one ?
5 - more force for pull up ( Popeye the Sailor ' arm) ?
6 - more sound (the click) ?

thanks .... many thanks !
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Breeder
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maybe your knifes or posts are just busted?
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Jeroen
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This only works if your trem ends up lower than it's normal position on a pull-up.
My suggestion would be to fix the trem: Make sure your knife-edges are in good shape, the tremposts are ok and locked, etc.
loran333
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the trem was just received 1 month ago from rich harris and filled by him.
as soon as i received the trem and the new post I have a 14 cents difference.
I filled by myself the knife and +06,+07 , as time past I see a +08 , +09 difference
so I refilled the knife : no change
I change the post for a new ones : + 12 , +13 !!!!!!!
I re put the old one +12 , +13 !!!!!!
(in each case same settle for the trem angle ,post height, strings fully strech , guitar perfect in tune , etc)

I re re filled the knife edge ...... +10 , +11 !!!!

now I can t refilled beacause the knife gonna loose her life.

very sorry jeroen but I don t understand this phrase : This only works if your trem ends up lower than
it's normal position on a pull-up.
(I french ... blah blah , you know... :) )
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Jeroen
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The backstop only works one way. If your trem goes out of tune flat, theoretically, a backstop should stop it. But if your trem goes out of tune sharp, a backstop won't fix that. As a matter of fact, using the backstop to get exactly to 0 is extremely difficult.

Try a good amount of Lobollo lipstick, or petroleum creame (vaselin or something like that) between knife and trempost, that could fix a lot.

J
loran333
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many thanks for the "clearence" jeroen !!!

usually chapstick fix a lot , on my other guitars :
a cheap lo trs 7 strings goes + 20 ,+22
magic chapstick and then +11,+12 :D

but in this case chapstic made nothing ; I m speechless , unbelieveble!!!

by the way , I ve made some trying with oil , wax , and , chapstick.

the best is a lipstick call "dermophil" , as good as the famous chapstick regular but
the "texture" is a little bit more "hard"
From rich harris , "the secret sauce" of the chapstick is the ptfe.
so I buyed a tube of grease with teflon for cycles : doesnt work.
the same with vasolin.
Don t know the Lobollo lipstick , i m gonna try it.
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Jeroen
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Lobollo is equal to chapstick, so that won't matter.

You might want to start troubleshooting other parts of the guitar, such as your locking nut, neck etc. If that doesn't help, start trem parts (the trem, the posts) with other guitars to see if you can trace the source of the problem that way.
J
loran333
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I just see that you use a backstop on your "toy" flo , jeroen .

what is , for you the pros and cons about your backstop ?
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Logic
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Mr. loran333
I am not sure I am understanding you, your guitar goes sharp after useing the trem?
If so, check the nut. Snug the nut! :) A loose nut will slide toward the tuners when you do a dive..
I am sorry if I have misunderstood the dillema.
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Jeroen
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loran333 wrote:I just see that you use a backstop on your "toy" flo , jeroen .

what is , for you the pros and cons about your backstop ?

It's there primarily for authenticity, it's a knock-off after all; but I do find it it prevents from accidentally going sharp on the trem.
The con is that it adds to the noise (like the springs do).

J
loran333
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very thanks

I m gonna try by myself soon 'cause I m waiting for one. :)

very thanks for your advice too , logic , but my nut is okay.
I know the symptoms of a loose nut (sharp and flat after dive and pull) :wink:

for those who want to know the final word about my problem.....
It was , that I m too ........obsessed

the G string ......is the G string (lots of problems with this string)
and she change very quickly , even on a hard tail , after a bend you can see variation
on the cents measurement.
pagliai
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Well i had got same problem before the tour on 4/5 guitars.

The situation is simple but a lot of things:

1)strings ,a lot of time the strings can be no good (just that package)and your problem with g string could be it.
2)the way you mount the string in the saddle(always in the dead center)
3)the little cube to mount the string in the saddle
4)check the studs,are they perfectly stright?if not you must change them
5)also the stud inserts can be not stright....this is a really hot problem ,but you can solve it with a good luthier
6)the bridge ,where it flutter on the studs is deteriorate so you must change the bridge
7)the little saddle intonation screw is just a little loose
8)the upper lockin screws on the nut are loose 'cause of the 3 little nut blocks are deteriorate,and it is so so easy,turn the tuners when the nut is closed ,you can check it so easy
9)the tremolo springs are deteriorate
10)the 4 screws and ferrules to fit the neck with the body loose.

Check all of these things and for sure you'll solve the situation,a little thing in a bad way can give your problem,the backstop is not the solution 'cause the guitar must stay in tune without it then you can mount a backstop but not to fix your problem,it is not correct,just like a workhorse 'cause the backstop is a workhorse not a problem solution

hope this helps
loran333
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many thanks for the advices ;-)

like I said in a post above , I was too much obessed.

actually the difference is 5,6 cents on the G strings and 3,4,5 cents on the other , after a complete dive with
the strings float on the neck then check 0 cents on the tuner and a full pull up on the bar ,up to 3,5 semitones,
(up to a 5th) on the g strings.

What I learnt about the cents return difference is that the trem need to "sit" a little bit in the studs.
this is why immediatly after I put a trem on a guitar the difference is 12 cents , then the trem "find his place"

anyway thanks again
pagliai
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well sir ,
it is good enough ,your guitar stays in tune considering you've got the tremolo

anyway before you'll work on the fine tuning with nut closed,put the tremolo all the way up and all the way down ,4/5 times then fine tuning again then another 4/5 up and down then tune and plug'n'play,but i think you already know this issue.

play groovy man and don't hurt yourself
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SRVoodoo
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I've found that inserting a piece of nice pliable foam between the block & body will help with unwanted flutter (like when you pick a string too hard.....also known as bad technique..... and the bridge flutters on it's own. the piece of foam with stop that & still give you full motion both up & down!

Also depends on what you want to use the backstop for:
1. to keep strings in tune when one breaks?
there's a very fine line in setting it up because you never know exactly which string is going to break.

I hope this helps
Rock on...Heavy! :guitar
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