Guitars SUCK 3: Revenge of the SUCK

For discussion of all general music topics, Favored Nations artists, Vai-related musicians and all other artists and bands.
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Shy Boy
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The bottom line is that I love these videos, and I’m going to continue to choose videos in a similar vein. I think there was a lot of diversity on GS3, and a lot of it wasn’t what I’d call “shred,” just guitarists with a lot of virtuosity.

I love it when people watch, find out about some new players, see something they haven’t seen before, and generally have a good time with it. I just don’t understand why someone would watch it and then post about it if they weren’t enjoying the music. If I’m watching a video and I don’t really like it then I just close it off and move on with my life. I don’t finish watching it and then track the artist down and tell him that he’s an unintelligent person who produces boring and uncomplex music.

I just think it’s unfortunate that so many people can’t get into this kind of music, because it’s what I live for.


P.S. Pink Floyd is no more mature or complex than any of these videos. It’s fine if you like Pink Floyd more, but it’s retarded to call it more mature just because you don’t get shred. There is no such thing as more mature music.
jsmallsawe
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"Shy Boy - You are a complete fucking idiot. That is all that it comes down to. Stop trying to philosophy." -ryan

Um, I sense some irony in this statement.

And yeah, the Petrucci Forum is much kinder than you guys. There are lots of people on there that like shred and lots of people that don't, but we're all ok with it. By the way, don't try to pull the "classical music" card to try and make yourself look better. It won't work. I've been classically trained since I was three in Percussion, piano, strings and voice. I'm actually studying classical voice right now in college and I still can appreciate the technical ability of a shred solo. It isn't my favorite thing to listen to, and it certainly doesn't challange me musically, but I can appreciate it as an exercise and chop builder as well.

And by the way, whoever made the absolutely stupid comment about Jordan Rudess's solos being only scales and his lack of classical backround or flexibility, or whatever you said was quite misguided. He actually entered the Juilliard School to study classical piano when he was 9.
*theanimal*05
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Hey shyboy can i send you a vid of me for your next guitars suck!

Im 16 and id like to put my stuff out there for your next one if possible?
Ryan Layton
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Also, mature is a horrible word to use in this situation. Mature would be listening and just saying whether you like it or not, and being open about it. Two of my instructors at Berklee regularly listen to shred, and one of them is a jazz guy - Tim Miller, the other a funk guy - Chris Buono. They may not listen to it as much as they listen to other stuff, but they definately listen to it occasionally, and they get something from it - that's the point.
You go to berklee, what did you expect?

And I realize that Rudess went to Julliard. I still think that his solos are uninspired and boring and fall into the things that I have been describing.

And for the last time: I "get" shred. There is nothing that is not to get. It's incredibly easy music. The only reason that you all enjoy it so much is because it's played on the guitar and it makes you feel so cool when you can pump the metronome up to 116 and play 16th notes just like your favorite shredder. Other instruments play just as fast as any guitarist or faster but I doubt that any of you give a damn since they aren't guitarists.

There is nothing that is over anyone's head when it comes to shred. Saying that someone doesn't "get it" is just an excuse to make it seem like they are a simpleton for not liking your music.
aiwass
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Ryan Layton wrote:To aiwass:

I'm not sure what kind of music it is that you study at your school, but I'm not so sure that the professors would be very open to shred.
We study all kinds of music, however the bachelor curriculum is primarily geared towards art music ('classical' is sort of a misleading term, as this emcompasses but a minute part of it) from early Medieval polyphony up until post-WWII atonality. My professors might not necessarily like shred, just as they may not necessarily like a certain style of art music whose ideals they do not personally agree with, but yes, they are certainly open to it, since as academics, they are required to be objective. They are certainly qualified to address the qualities of music by a set of given criteria, but are in no position to judge absolute quality, for which there are no universal criteria.
Shy Boy
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*theanimal*05 wrote:Hey shyboy can i send you a vid of me for your next guitars suck!
I can’t make any promises, but I’ll be glad to check it out! :D Send it to: cyberdave@houston.rr.com
Ryan Layton wrote:Saying that someone doesn't "get it" is just an excuse to make it seem like they are a simpleton for not liking your music.
You're wasting your time writing this. I know you don't actually get it, because truly understanding it is loving it.

Obviously someone really loving shred isn’t about the speed. If you approached Michael Angelo Batio and asked him if his musical goal in life was to become the fastest guitarist ever, he’d probably laugh in your face. He devoted his life to that kind of music because he sees something in it that you’ll probably never understand. I see it in his music, too. You don’t, which is why you don’t like it. It’s the same thing you see and love about your favorite classical pieces. You love that sound and that energy, not that “so and so amount of people are playing this while so and so is playing that, therefore it’s complex.” No, you’d still love that dynamic sound even if it was coming out of a child’s play toy.

The kind of music I love is almost coincidentally played very technically. That’s not what matters. It only happens to be that way because in order have greater freedom of expression you need to be a master of the instrument.

Everyone likes the kind of music they like because it provides some balance they’re looking for. I always think of it as everyone looking for a similar vibrational frequency… something that matches their own.

It appears that you feel threatened by music you don’t like. I believe that you invest far too great a sense of self in the music that you listen to. You identify with it, so anything else is a threat to your false sense of self. Get over it. Enjoy the music you love and let others do the same without needing to reduce them to a mental concept – a label. Stop judging them and just allow them to be.
Ryan Layton
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You're wasting your time writing this. I know you don't actually get it, because truly understanding it is loving it.
This is rediculious. I understand what happened in the Holocaust, but I do not, by any means, love it. The same applys to music or anything else. I can be a math major in college and study it for my whole life and still be miserable because my love lies elsewhere.
It appears that you feel threatened by music you don’t like. I believe that you invest far too great a sense of self in the music that you listen to. You identify with it, so anything else is a threat to your false sense of self. Get over it. Enjoy the music you love and let others do the same without needing to reduce them to a mental concept – a label. Stop judging them and just allow them to be.
This is also false. Again, you assume things about me when we have never personally met. Music is music, and while I feel an extreme closeness to classical guitar music and lots of other classical music in general, I do not feel that it represents me in any way.

As for the comments about Michael Angelo Batio and how being a technical master is the only means for being truly expressive, let me offer you this: If we took Batio to the middle of New York City and left him in a jazz club on jam night, how do you think he would do? Michael Angelo Batio is not a jazz player, and you can correct me if I am wrong (in which case we can just find another player to make an example of) but MAB has not studied jazz to my knowledge. It certianly doesn't sound that way at least. He would still be the same technical master, but in that context, he would be incapable of expressing himself because he does not know how. In jazz, we have seen the likes of Wes Montgomery who played nothing but slow octave lines in his solos and made some of the most expressive music ever. I am not saying that Wes was the better guitarist because he can play jazz and MAB can not, but I AM saying that the ability to express yourself does not come from technical ability. There is much, much more involved. Perhaps what you meant to say was "MAB wanted to express himself in the style of music that he most enjoyed. This style happened to be shred rock and he knew that in order to reach his goal, he had to build his technique."
Miles_Coltrane
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Ryan Layton wrote:To Miles_Coltrane:

You are making an assumption that I can't play. You have never heard me. You assume that I can't play fast because I dislike the shreding in the video. This is incorrect and a terrible use of logic. I will not put a video of myself on this website because I do not feel that it is nessicary in any way as this argument is about the music of others, not myself. You know as well as I that no matter what I were to post as my own playing would immediatly be shot down because you already have it in your mind that you dislike me. You are biased and you are trying to turn this discussion into something that it is not.
I know you can't play fast, you can't play a lick of Jazz, and that you're just a beginner on the classical guitar. You talk a lot of trash about other players, yet you have contributed NOTHING to this forum, this thread, or the world of music in any style. Your knowledge of theory and the history of tonal/atonal music is that of a freshman, and you have absolutely NOTHING to show for your musical talent, pursuits, or freshman music classes.

Get out of your house, quit sitting on forums insulting other musicians, learn some goddamned manners, and actually practice your instrument. Maybe then you'll actually be able to back up your words by showing us exactly what playing proper guitar is all about.

Post a video of you playing ANYTHING on the guitar Ryan, that is anot much to ask of someone talking the trash you're talking, otherwise just bow out of this thread and shut your damned mouth.
Shy Boy
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double post
Last edited by Shy Boy on Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Shy Boy
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Ryan Layton wrote:This is rediculious. I understand what happened in the Holocaust, but I do not, by any means, love it.
I was obviously referring to music, but you had to take it out of context in order to use my words against me. Very well… The holocaust caused great suffering, and therefore you believe it to be completely wrong. I don’t see it that way. Suffering serves a very noble purpose in life, because it drives you toward conciseness (almost all enlightened masters suffered unusually greatly early on in their lives). If there was no suffering, everyone would lack depth and compassion. At the same time, you can break free of suffering through total acceptance of what is. The holocaust happened just as it should have, and if you don’t believe that – if you don’t believe in perfection, then at the very least, it happened. It’s reality, so why not simply accept it before trying to bring about positive change? If you accept it and are at peace with it then whether it changes ultimately doesn’t matter very much, and certainly doesn’t diminish your inner-wellbeing.
Ryan Layton wrote:Michael Angelo Batio is not a jazz player, and you can correct me if I am wrong (in which case we can just find another player to make an example of) but MAB has not studied jazz to my knowledge.
M.A.B. has studied jazz extensively. A lot of his style is inspired by Charlie Christian and Django Reinhardt.

Anyways, I’m done talking with you, and I can only hope you’ve learned something from all of this. Please don’t come back for Guitars SUCK 4 if all you have to contribute is “Jesus Christ... I hate this shit.” In fact, don't watch it at all, because I already know that you'll hate it.
Ethn Hayabusa
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Just to pipe in, I think Micheal Angelo, as funny as it sounds, does have a degree in Jazz, in some form or another.

Before he hit big as big hair shredder extodinaire, and after, he was a session guy.

Back to your regularly scheduled attack on the elitist heathen.
aiwass
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Ryan Layton wrote:In jazz, we have seen the likes of Wes Montgomery who played nothing but slow octave lines in his solos and made some of the most expressive music ever.
If you think that's all Wes did, you have some listening to do. Wes could bop with the best of 'em, the octaves thing was just his trademark. He wasn't too slow, either (for playing only with his thumb, anyway).
Ryan Layton
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I am aware of this. Thank you anyway.
Axmanjr
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I think it's past Ryan's bedtime. Have you finished your homework yet?
Ryan Layton
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That joke wasn't funny when YB said it. What made you think that you could make it work. People like you have no business in this argument. As far as I'm concerned, this is between YB, ShyBoy, and myself. You kids with only one or two posts to your name should stay out. between the 3 of us, we have all bases covered.
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