Guitars SUCK 3: Revenge of the SUCK

For discussion of all general music topics, Favored Nations artists, Vai-related musicians and all other artists and bands.
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chris_lpp
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Aint Cello such a cool instrument. It's not annoying like a squeaky piano and is the middle one with lots of cool techniques PLUS you can sit on your ass and play it....


What bugs me: Double bass plays octave lower than Bass Clef hence DOUBLE BASS !BUT!why is the stave the same as the higher Normal Bass Clef.....ie...notes are differnt on Treble Clef and Bass Clef, but notes are same on Bass and Dbl Bass clef, arent they all supposed to be in-line with each other?
Ryan Layton
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I see we're still distracting you from your work.
You have said this twice and it hasn't been funny either time.

It just so happens that I was practicing and then had a massive amount of homework to do, but thank you for discrediting me and thinking that I could no longer hold my own.
Ryan Layton
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What bugs me: Double bass plays octave lower than Bass Clef hence DOUBLE BASS !BUT!why is the stave the same as the higher Normal Bass Clef.....ie...notes are differnt on Treble Clef and Bass Clef, but notes are same on Bass and Dbl Bass clef, arent they all supposed to be in-line with each other?
I can not answer you with 100% certianty, but I would imagine that it would be to avoid all of those ledger lines. Also to avoid creating a staff for only one instrument when the same notes can just be read in a different octave.

There are a few other odd things about musical notation. For example: the baritone saxophone plays notes that fall into bass clef, but it is still written an octave above in treble clef.
Slygroove
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chris_lpp wrote:Aint Cello such a cool instrument. It's not annoying like a squeaky piano and is the middle one with lots of cool techniques PLUS you can sit on your ass and play it....


What bugs me: Double bass plays octave lower than Bass Clef hence DOUBLE BASS !BUT!why is the stave the same as the higher Normal Bass Clef.....ie...notes are differnt on Treble Clef and Bass Clef, but notes are same on Bass and Dbl Bass clef, arent they all supposed to be in-line with each other?
Why doesn't anyone point out that GUITAR notation isn't played as written? It's not just bass. On guitar, notes are played one octave lower than written.
Yngtchie Blacksteen
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Ryan Layton wrote:You have said this twice and it hasn't been funny either time.

It just so happens that I was practicing and then had a massive amount of homework to do, but thank you for discrediting me and thinking that I could no longer hold my own.
You never could.
Ryan Layton
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Oh wow, you really got me there :roll:

This is probably another one of those times when you've thought you were clever, looked for someone to slap hands with, and then realized that the only thing that you are close to in this world is the bottle of lotion located to the right of your computer.
Yngtchie Blacksteen
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Ryan Layton wrote:Oh wow, you really got me there :roll:

This is probably another one of those times when you've thought you were clever, looked for someone to slap hands with, and then realized that the only thing that you are close to in this world is the bottle of lotion located to the right of your computer.
Image
Ryan Layton
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.....
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brentm
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And remember... Never wrestle with a pig ... ... you'll both get dirty, and only the pig will enjoy it.
cioran
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Ryan Layton wrote: I know what I'm talking about, ok? I know that you type all of this stuff out and think that you've made a great point, and get so pleased with yourself, but you need to realize two things:

1) You have not made a single impressive point yet. Everything that either of you have said only makes me roll my eyes and I reply to your poor logic without any effort.
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Can we not simply recognize the fact that we are aiding an unwell person in his delusions here, and stop replying? This is only harming the forum, and RL cannot be reasoned with.
Miles_Coltrane
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Ryan Layton wrote: It just so happens that I was practicing and then had a massive amount of homework to do, but thank you for discrediting me and thinking that I could no longer hold my own.
Ok.. I seriously doubt you're much of a Jazz player, you definitely suck at playing anything fast, and you're a n00b on the Classical front. What exactly are you trying to prove? That you've taken good notes in class while a teacher has explained everything for you and then you regurgitate it here like you're some type of authority. You sound like one of those classical noobs in his first or second year that has just had a his first taste of snobbery.

If you're simply just an asshole here looking to cause problems that's cool, but if you claim to be any sort of artist you've got a lot to learn about respect.

Now post a video of yourself playing ANYTHING on the guitar and don't be a pussy. It's 2006 and we all know you've got some sort of recording device whether it be a camera, phone, webcam, or video camera.
aiwass
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I, too, am a music student (I study musicology at the University of Oslo), and would like to express my utter disgust for the bigotry and ignorance displayed in this thread. I attend lectures every day with professors who would piss all over anybody on this forum when it comes to knowledge of music, yet not one of them claims to know any better than the next person what is good music, or more importantly, what is not. Music is an abstract, autonomous expression, and if you in studying music believe that you are somehow justified in imposing your own tastes on others as fact, and qualified to determine whether a musical expression is 'good' or not, then essentially, I'm inclined to believe that you missed the first day of orientation.

Now, I'd like to briefly address two particularly interesting points made by Mr. Layton in this thread:

1. As a student of music, how do you justify your statement that classical music is more complex than modern music? With your academic merit, you of all people should know that complexity is absurd without parameters. For instance, you can't compare pre-composed works with improvisational music. Sure, Beethoven's 9th symphony is a vast compositional epic incorporating such advanced devices as double and triple fugue. John Coltrane's 'Countdown', however, is just a set of chords with a head. Whereas the former is undeniably the more complex compositionally, the latter entails a whole new aspect, namely on-the-spot improvisation. Thusly, we are faced with a new set of parameters. As another example, Bach is revered for his masterful counterpoint and harmony--how exactly do you go about juxtaposing this with groove-oriented music, where melody is secondary to rhythm? You just don't. Every style has ideals, but at the end of the day these are just culturally contrived phenomena, and judging one style by the ideals of another is totally and utterly pointless.

2. A question for you (Ryan Layton): Did you watch the whole video? You see, passing off Allan Holdsworth (yes, he's in there) as "just a guy playing scales over power chords" or whatever you said, is about as ignorant a statement as any guitarist could possibly make. Allan Holdsworth is one of the most advanced improvisational artists alive today, and unquestionably one of guitar playing's greatest genii. I actually agree with you that a lot of the playing in the video is rubbish (mind you that this is my opinion, and that playing ability and musical quality are two entirely different concepts), but when you pass off every player in there as a mindless shredder, including Allan, and even have the minerals to follow it up with the statement: "At least I can play" (this is somewhat akin to scoffing at Stravinsky and saying: "At least I can compose"), then I am led to believe that you either: a) didn't watch the video, or b) don't know what the hell you are talking about.
Ryan Layton
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To Miles_Coltrane:

You are making an assumption that I can't play. You have never heard me. You assume that I can't play fast because I dislike the shreding in the video. This is incorrect and a terrible use of logic. I will not put a video of myself on this website because I do not feel that it is nessicary in any way as this argument is about the music of others, not myself. You know as well as I that no matter what I were to post as my own playing would immediatly be shot down because you already have it in your mind that you dislike me. You are biased and you are trying to turn this discussion into something that it is not.

To cioran:

I am not unwell. Perhaps I'd accept asshole. Anyway, you have been correct about one thing since you invited yourself into this argument and that is the fact that I can not be reasoned with. I dislike this music.

To aiwass:

I'm not sure what kind of music it is that you study at your school, but I'm not so sure that the professors would be very open to shred. I have found that people who are more informed about music will often dislike the sort of music displayed in the video. Also, older, more mature players have a strong dislike for it. I can not count the amout of players (who are amazing in every way) who have told me to give shred a rest and listen to something like Pink Floyd and learn how to be mature. I know that when I began expanding my horizons to the music that I currently have an interest in, I noticed that the stuff that I used to listen to was not getting a lot of respect. Just to counter the point of "well, you only dislike it now because patrons of your current musical tastes dislike what you used to enjoy" I wil let you know that it should be obvious that I was never one to give a damn about what others thought. This should have been made clear by my stubborn-ness in this forum and by the fact that until I came to school and developed a love of classical music in a classical music environment, not one of my friends (other than a select few rock musicians) was into the kind of music that I was.

Complexity has never been my point of view, though I will apologize if it appeared that way. I will tell you that lots of great music has been simple. Think of how many people love the song Burning Down The House by Talking Heads. It is a simple song with only the chords F, G, and A. All major chords. This, of course, makes no theoretical sense. I do remember very clearly saying that music that is technically complex for the sake of being technically complex is rediculious. Improv is fantiastic. I have a great appreciation for jazz and other improvised music. On the subject of improv: did you know that bach could improv a double fugue?

Allan Holdsworth would be one that was not complete crap in that video, though I did not particularly like the selection chosen. He, and his band for that matter, are great players. I do not think that you can fairly compare his music, with it's complex chord changes and what not, to that of some of those other players (especially that first guy, who only played, note for note, someone else's song) who just play their minor pent runs over chords with no real need for any special attention.

The comment "at least I can play" was never really meant seriously, just saying that I do not make music as shitty as that compiled in the 30 minute video from hell that we have on our hands thanks to Shy Boy.
Nikkoe
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I suggest you guys go visit the JP forum and stop fighting, 'right kids?

http://www.petrucciforum.com/forums/sho ... hp?t=33732

They're right: we're missing the whole point of this thread. So please, if you like, stay; if you don't, go. That simple? Yeah.
Xaem
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Ryan Layton wrote: To aiwass:

I'm not sure what kind of music it is that you study at your school, but I'm not so sure that the professors would be very open to shred. I have found that people who are more informed about music will often dislike the sort of music displayed in the video. Also, older, more mature players have a strong dislike for it. I can not count the amout of players (who are amazing in every way) who have told me to give shred a rest and listen to something like Pink Floyd and learn how to be mature.
The numbers you are counting are just on their high horses or they don't listen to shred. It's not that they're not open to it, they just don't like it. It doesn't prove anything for you to try to make a point out of this.

Also, mature is a horrible word to use in this situation. Mature would be listening and just saying whether you like it or not, and being open about it. Two of my instructors at Berklee regularly listen to shred, and one of them is a jazz guy - Tim Miller, the other a funk guy - Chris Buono. They may not listen to it as much as they listen to other stuff, but they definately listen to it occasionally, and they get something from it - that's the point.

On the other hand, I think shred has several horrible cliches associated with it, such as horrible tone and vibrato, lack of feel etc, and a lot of the peeps in this video fall into those categories in one way or another. I also think a few of them don't. Holdsworth is extremely talented and its surprising to see him on that video, Magnus Olssen as well - who is a very good player. I think this one is a bit better than the other guitars suck videos, a bit more diversity. The acoustic stuff got old pretty fast, in my opinion. Still good, though.
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