Frank Zappa on Crossfire

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RuyBlackmore
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Frank Zappa on Crossfire

#1 Post by RuyBlackmore » Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:24 am

In 1986, Frank Zappa appeared on Crossfire to discuss rock lyrics and censorship.
(21 min 17 sec)


Click in the link below
http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/265880 ... =7063&ns=1

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#2 Post by Guitar_freaak » Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:17 am

Wow , what a heated argument . Zappa holds no punches , and you gotta respect him for that . Hes trying to promote the freedom to create unique music , but they keep on trying to twist the argument to make him look bad , but despite that , he stays on top of them the whole time , and comes out with his retort almost before they have asked the question . He then turns the board on each other , Zappa was a very powerful and influential man .

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#3 Post by Vaituoso » Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:25 am

I love this video. Frank was the real deal. He puts that dumbass in his place.

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#4 Post by jemgirl » Sat Sep 03, 2005 2:00 pm

i begin to love and respect zappa more and more!!
what a guy he was!

patricia

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#5 Post by RoadStarII » Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:25 pm

I almost pissed myself "... its the MOTHERS OF INVENTION... you need to get out more... "

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#6 Post by Ryan Layton » Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:27 pm

i love how calm he remains the whole time.

if you watch the 2nd video that was shot a year later, you see him even more relaxed. he also says one of the most halarious things I have ever heard.

An interviewer asks, "Is there any song in the past decade that you would not want your children to hear?"

"Yes, 'We Are The World'"

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#7 Post by merlinlake78 » Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:27 pm

A second video? .. Where?
All respects to frank zappa .. the greatest .and music is the best.

May his soul rest in peace

Benny aka Merlinlake78

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#8 Post by treeduck » Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:03 pm

I see they're naming a street after Frank in Berlin...

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u ... 0904135640

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#9 Post by cioran » Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:50 pm

Responding mainly to Shy Boy where I first picked up on the thread, and I gotta say I don't agree. Words in themselves do have a tremendous amount of power; as you correctly suggested the emotion behind them is the real issue, and that can't be effectively censored. Put those two items together; Hitler's choice of individual words were not harmless sounds in context, they were amazingly potent catalysts in relation to modes of thought already extant. His audiences may have started out plain prejudiced, but afterwards they were filled with hate.
That is why, in Europe at least, words like that are monitored and somtimes banned.
In Sweden the law forbids, approximately, "incitement to contempt" and/or "incitement to acts of contempt, threat or violence" directed at specific groups - originally the law was installed to protect Jews from hate-mongering, but it has been expanded to include all ethnic groups and sexual minorities. Thus, public speeches denying the Holocaust took place, that a Zionist Occupational Government runs the world, that all muslims are terrorists and so forth carry a penalty, as do certain symbols, like the Nazi swastika displayed in public.
Germany, of course, has the harshest laws, but they are all pretty similar. In Europe, thus, we are often faced with difficult calls; the Swedish pastor Åke Green was tried, and acquitted, for preaching that homosexuals are a cancer on the body social; English revisionist J. Irving was tried and convicted in Austria for denying the Holocaust took place. (He has appealed).
In the larger scale, then, we do have censorship of politics and ideology - and the White Power music where it is expressed - and we are always having to pinpoint the fine line in the public forum.
Obviously, things become tricky elsewhere as well. I don't think any nation allows child pornography - but when something resembling it appears in litterature we afford it artistic value, such as Nabokov's Lolita and a thousand other works. We forbid violent pornography, but a rape scene is allowed in a movie if it has anything to do with the plot, and Ellis' American Psycho is considered an important piece of literature by some.

This, then, we compare to the Super Bowl "Nipplegate", and marvel at the outcry it caused - including a Presidential statement, promises of a delayed live feed in future, and a teary-eyed Jackson apologizing to the nation. Again, it has to do with context; the Super Bowl was a "family" event, and the American world record in pornography production, supposedly, is not. Nor is Cannibal Corpse's "The Taste of Virgin C**t Flesh" or Vital Remains' exhortations to "kill, maim, rape" in their name.

I know I'm drawing off topic, but most of what I've mentioned is, at the end of the day, words. If you want to take an absolutist view like Frank, you have to contend with this. Maybe it's worth the downside, maybe not. None of the examples above are new to our age, but mass media is.
To my mind, you can't make a definitive statement and leave it there - some things have to be debated, and some things need to be scrutinized in court. It's a chore, but societies everywhere need to examine themselves. Differing views welcome. Signing off.

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#10 Post by CymbalSplittingSkinbasher » Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:24 pm

Well, let's take the homosexual issue for instance. Why is it condemned when this practice/lifestyle is spoken out against, written about against, preached against, BUT it's ok to make a film about it & have it up for all kinds of AWARDS like it's something that everybody should be doing, or at least try once. Seems like hypocrisy to me. :? Oh, I know, because it's really about "love" right, not homosexuality itself. :roll:

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#11 Post by CymbalSplittingSkinbasher » Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:26 pm

Tonight, people will be AWARDED for basically promoting homsexuality, while others are CONDEMNED for speaking &/or writing against it.

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#12 Post by CymbalSplittingSkinbasher » Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:31 pm

As for Hitler, sure his words were powerful, but WHY were they powerful?

They were powerful because the German people had already been brainwashed & whipped into a huge frenzy with tales of the coming of the Ubermensch, the Elite of the Race, the "Superman," written about in Nietzsche's Thus Spake Zarathustra. Hitler himself was whipped into a frenzy by such writings & more, including Wagner's Rienzie.

After WWI, the German people were convinced their new "messiah" was on the horizon & all it took was the manipulation of an energetic speaker like Hitler by psychotic murderers to achieve this.

In Hitler's early years, his history teacher, Dr. Leopold Potsche, had a profound effect on his pysche, along with the writings of German philosopher Georg Wilhelm Frederick Hegel, Friedrich Nietzsche, Schopenhauer & Richard Wagner to name a few. Hitler was basically groomed by an inner circle of occultists which included the likes of Dietrich Eckart, Houston Stewart Chamberlain & Professor Karl Haushofer. He was an energetic speaker that was manipulated by evil wackos.

There was an awfully lot going on behind the scenes with Hitler that history doesn't want you to know about, & you can bank on that. It goes, much, much deeper than Hitler himself.

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#13 Post by cioran » Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:16 am

CymbalSplittingSkinbasher wrote:As for Hitler, sure his words were powerful, but WHY were they powerful?

They were powerful because the German people had already been brainwashed & whipped into a huge frenzy with tales of the coming of the Ubermensch, the Elite of the Race, the "Superman," written about in Nietzsche's Thus Spake Zarathustra. Hitler himself was whipped into a frenzy by such writings & more, including Wagner's Rienzie.

After WWI, the German people were convinced their new "messiah" was on the horizon & all it took was the manipulation of an energetic speaker like Hitler by psychotic murderers to achieve this.

In Hitler's early years, his history teacher, Dr. Leopold Potsche, had a profound effect on his pysche, along with the writings of German philosopher Georg Wilhelm Frederick Hegel, Friedrich Nietzsche, Schopenhauer & Richard Wagner to name a few. Hitler was basically groomed by an inner circle of occultists which included the likes of Dietrich Eckart, Houston Stewart Chamberlain & Professor Karl Haushofer. He was an energetic speaker that was manipulated by evil wackos.

There was an awfully lot going on behind the scenes with Hitler that history doesn't want you to know about, & you can bank on that. It goes, much, much deeper than Hitler himself.
I personally believe that the setting for Hitler's triumph had a lot more to do with injured pride and feelings of unjust treatment by the League of Nations coupled with social ills, the failure of the Weimar experiment and the desperate need for an "other" to blame for the German predicament.
That the German people were awaiting a strong leader is clear, but they sure as heck didn't get the idea from Nietzsche. His idea of the "übermench" was a philosophical and intellectual one. Nietzsche was not widely known in Germany at the time, and in fact his works were among the first to be censored - not surprising given the fact that he hated Prussian ideals, hated the idea of a unified Greater Germany (he was violently opposed to Bismarck), and thought that anti-semites should be shot for their ignorance. (He did tend to express himself drastically..)
Some of his thoughts were hijacked and degraded by his idiot sister and certain others, but trust me (or, if not me, any number of scholars) - Nietzsche would have utterly hated everything about Nazi Germany had he lived to see it, and very likely his critique would have been so scathing they'd have had to kill him quick.

Hegel and Schopenhauer as inspirations I don't get either. Hegel's idealized view of the organic state and the end of history might, with a bit of editing, be perverted and misunderstood. But Shopenhauer? Not even a madman like Hitler could have gotten it that wrong.
I don't know what this "inner circle" is supposed to be, but it sure as hell wasn't a philosophy club...

As for what history doesn't want us to know...the common response to a claim like this is "Please elaborate".

The same might be said re the posts on the "homosexual issue". I'm not sure I understand what your point is. All the best.

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#14 Post by CymbalSplittingSkinbasher » Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:11 am

Well, I don't have a problem with the making of the film BBM, because I can tolerate films, books, songs etc...I'm not for censorship at all. My point about the homosexual issue is this:

"It's ok, even cool, to DO this & that, & be recognized or sometimes rewarded, but it's not ok to SAY this a that," or you'll be chastised, ridiculed, alienated & even labeled. Basically the view that you can DO one thing, but not SAY another. It seems ok to "promote with action," but it's not ok to "condemn with WORDS."

As for Hitler, wow that's a long debate there, & I do agree with you about the LoN, Weimar etc.. & the censorship of certain works, but that being said, there's always an "underground" working behind the scenes, even concerning the availability of literary works. And the info on the inner circle & many of Hitler's influences, both early & later, are out there if you search hard enough. Some of it is better left for conspiracy theory, but if you sift through it long enough, a strange, mysterious pattern does start to appear.

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#15 Post by CymbalSplittingSkinbasher » Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:33 am

I just want to clarify that I didn't mean for it to come across that the sole cause of Hitler's rise were certain literary works that the German people were reading en masse. I realize that the way I typed that up could be taken exactly that way, & that's totally my bad for doing that, I apologize. There were many factors involved, & certain literature, whether read by the people, government officials & educators of the time, or even Hitler himself, did play a part, what exact percentage on the whole, I don't know. From what I've been able to gather, the people were pretty much brainwashed, & even Hitler was to some degree. Now whether you believe his to be true or not, is up to you.

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