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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 4:59 am
by boswell
Everyone "steals" from their influences wether consciously or subconsciously, weve all come up with melodies or riffs only to have a friend say hey thats cool you can play xyz by theultrafamousrockband.

The real art of music is to make something sound vaguely familiar yet be original, totally original music often sounds harsh or too alien to the music buying public. Take eastern/far eastern music many westerners just "don't get it" for instance the Bulgarian Wedding music posted on this forum recently 99% of us probably just hear it as a cacphony of notes, yet if Steve "steals" little pieces of the melodies or rhythms and adds ingredients we are familiar with most on this forum would love it. Yet the Bulgarian composer would say "hey! thats my song"

So my line on this is yeah the melody came from Steves head, but who knows maybe it was filed in there while watching Kung Fu.

My name is Pod I come in peace 8)

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 5:19 am
by Yozhik
Jeroen wrote:
Yozhik wrote:
Jeroen,

With all due respect the both of us without proper counsel can determine what is protected by Copyright law, and not as well as time constraints concerning copyright protected music.

And it doesn’t have anything at all to do with the number of notes.

Lucasfilm the owner of that famous THX logo “Deep note” sound filed suit against Dr. Dre seeking unspecified damages for copyright infringement.

That was a one note sample.


Yozhik

Sir,
You can read the law. It's pretty well spelled out. Besides that there is enough jurisprudence to safely assess what the result would be if Jim Helms would take legal action - and with a little effort you can read that jurisprudence as well. Have a go at those.

Lucasfilm VS Dr. Dre has no relation to this as that was a sample, which is not the case here.


J


1. Registration Number: RE-820-396
Title: Caine's theme. From Kung Fu. m acWB Music Corporation, employer
for hire of Jim Helms.
Claimant: WB Music Corporation (PWH)
Effective Registration Date: 5Jan00
Original Registration Date: 9May72;
Original Registration Number: EU330151.


Jeroen,

Jim Helms was the original composer but as I stated before Warner owns the copyright currently as we can here from the U.S. Copyright site. It was renewed January 2000.

And my example of George Harrison against the Chiffons where he lost the court case due to subconsciously copying and incorporating “He’s so fine” into “My Sweet Lord” wasn’t the whole song but a partial borrowing.

I don’t accuse Steve of anything, but I noticed the relation and others in this thread also noticed when it was pointed out.

I am not suggesting that Steve be sued or damaged in any fashion I am just curious about how the melody was created that’s all.


Yozhik

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 5:25 am
by Zeds.Ded
all you need to know is that it wasnt taken from that movie

how do i know?

cause Steve told us

who do i believe?

Steve

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 6:01 am
by Yozhik
boswell wrote:Everyone "steals" from their influences wether consciously or subconsciously, weve all come up with melodies or riffs only to have a friend say hey thats cool you can play xyz by theultrafamousrockband.

The real art of music is to make something sound vaguely familiar yet be original, totally original music often sounds harsh or too alien to the music buying public. Take eastern/far eastern music many westerners just "don't get it" for instance the Bulgarian Wedding music posted on this forum recently 99% of us probably just hear it as a cacphony of notes, yet if Steve "steals" little pieces of the melodies or rhythms and adds ingredients we are familiar with most on this forum would love it. Yet the Bulgarian composer would say "hey! thats my song"

So my line on this is yeah the melody came from Steves head, but who knows maybe it was filed in there while watching Kung Fu.

My name is Pod I come in peace 8)


Boswell,

I couldn’t agree with you more in the evolution of music there has always been pushing the envelope past its original limitations. As musicians we all start with influences we look up to who inspire us to do better than before. But you would notice some musicians who make it pay their respects to the ones who inspired them either vocally or financially if somebody covers a famous song and redoes it in a new fashion. The legal department sorts out all of the filing documentation and negotiated fees beforehand.

Only Steve could comment and say where he came up with the original theme for this song, as everyone I am sure would be curious to hear.

Yozhik

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 6:37 am
by zzzec
It's pretty similar, but I think that this melody is not the only one like that...

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 6:41 am
by Bryceybhoy
Sorry mate, but you're beginning (and I use that word loosely) to talk pish.

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 7:46 am
by Yozhik
Bryceybhoy wrote:Sorry mate, but you're beginning (and I use that word loosely) to talk pish.

Bryceybhoy,

I am not sure about the term pish and what it entails but run over the details and dispute it then if so.



Yozhik

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 8:30 am
by Zeds.Ded
:lol: lol

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 8:34 am
by Splish
This topic is getting a little out of hand isnt it...

Splish

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 8:48 am
by smiffy
I've just listened to the MIDI file, and I must say that there are only a few similarities between the two tunes. The first two chords are more or less the same, but after that the chord structure is fairly different from FTLOG. The theme has only very few similarities with Steve's tune, but the bassline is quite similar. It would'nt in any case be something to take legal action against, I'm sure about that.

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 9:06 am
by Yozhik
smiffy wrote:I've just listened to the MIDI file, and I must say that there are only a few similarities between the two tunes. The first two chords are more or less the same, but after that the chord structure is fairly different from FTLOG. The theme has only very few similarities with Steve's tune, but the bassline is quite similar. It would'nt in any case be something to take legal action against, I'm sure about that.

smiffy,

Did you listen to the original version?

Its on youtube if you search for kung fu david carradine.

I am unable to post URL, here for 7 days as a new member.

Yozhik

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 9:12 am
by Yozhik
zzzec wrote:It's pretty similar, but I think that this melody is not the only one like that...



zzzec,

Perhaps there are others out there but Steve's FTLOG and kung fu are the only ones I have heard.

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:36 am
by Yozhik
catscratchfever wrote:i can't believe you are even talking about all this, it's purely ridiculous, i mean, i'd like to know what your point is actually debating about it...... in my personal opinion steve would never steal somebody else's melody and that sound sample there was only so close, i had to listen hard to hear it, and would never have even seen any similarities at all if not for this thread because the idea of ftlog being built of that is so far fetched, plus i think jeroen's right, even If*()*, its a little late..................

catscratchfever,

Well ridiculous or not why the similarity?


Yozhik

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:51 am
by Zeds.Ded
coincidental. thats it.

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm
by lydian2000
Yozhik wrote:
smiffy wrote:I've just listened to the MIDI file, and I must say that there are only a few similarities between the two tunes. The first two chords are more or less the same, but after that the chord structure is fairly different from FTLOG. The theme has only very few similarities with Steve's tune, but the bassline is quite similar. It would'nt in any case be something to take legal action against, I'm sure about that.

smiffy,

Did you listen to the original version?

Its on youtube if you search for kung fu david carradine.

I am unable to post URL, here for 7 days as a new member.

Yozhik
Could you at least tell us the EXACT words you have to type in youtube and WHICH video would it be...because I haven't found it...
and I typed "kung fu david carradine" and nothing seems to correspond...please?

or anyone else who actually found the video with that music in youtube could post the link? otherwise if no one can listen, no one can judge.