Euegene's Trick baaarrrrggggggghhhh !!

Discuss playing styles and techniques, or share your own here.
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Guitaruss
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#61 Post by Guitaruss » Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:15 am

Its still driving me nuts this piece but heres some added info about the fast alternate picked section..

'The kid' plays it at 147 bpm while vai plays it at 142...
also thekids part was alledgedly played in Eflat then tweaked up to E..this would account for the difference in speed and also why playing at 147 is next to impossible...!

therefore my target speed would be 142...it sounds cool and fast at this speed anyway.

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#62 Post by theriddler14 » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:07 am

Phil_b wrote:To pick faster you dont need to move your hand faster, you need to move your hand less. When you pick a string your hand only has to move a tiny bit to get to the other side of it. Look how little your hand needs to move and then do it, it will cut down on unwanted extra movement that just takes your hand further away from the string. It will probably take a little while but after that you will be able to play this peice easy peasy.

I hope that helps
Isn't that called double downing?

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#63 Post by Guitaruss » Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:46 am

I'd like to hear this Phil_b play it as he thinks its 'easy peasy' :roll:

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#64 Post by markno999 » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:07 pm

Eugene's Bag of Tricks isn't necessarily a difficult piece to play but it is very tough at 147bpm or even 142bpm. Given the fluidity of the performance at this speed I think it is very likely that some studio magic made this performance possible, i.e, speeding up the performance or a lot of takes spliced together. I have seen very good players perform this song but never up to the speed of the CrossRoads movie. By that I mean the whole song consistently at that speed.

Certainly there are players that can cover parts of it up to speed. Everytime I hear someone say they can do it, usually, they fall very short of nailing it in some regard. For being such as popular song among guitar players you should be able to YouTube it and find a decent performance. I have never seen one. That said, I would be happy to play it at 130bpm.

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#65 Post by Guitaruss » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:45 am

I'd be happy with 130 also ...regarding the studio magic...when vai plays the fast picked section after the kid you can see his picking hand perfectly in sync with the films audio implying he played it 'live'...unless of courese they sped the film up also :lol:

The hardest thing for me is getting the phrasing bang on...heres a guy while not up to speed gets the phrasing pretty good

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... dID=404246

meanwhile this guy on you tube although fast plays too fast for his own good
and doesnt get it IMO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN-gZ0bepTg

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#66 Post by Stephen Brown » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:41 am

The hours you have to put in to get it back into shape. Is it really worth it.

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#67 Post by Guitaruss » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:06 pm

Ive never really had it 'in shape' lol so i dont know...but i reckon once you 'get it' then it should be a pleasure to play not massive 'task'.. :)

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#68 Post by markno999 » Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:10 pm

Guitaruss,

Both the examples you provided are pretty good. The guy in the video is actually a professional concert violinist. Pretty impressive playing, although his outfit is a little too revealing for my taste.

Your point about Vai's hands seeming in sync are correct, and the film being sped up sounds probable. The section with Vai playing seeming normal, but, the section of Ralph Macchio pretending to play the part does appear to be sped up considerably, particulary noticeable while he is playing the arps on the E & B strings that jump back and forth from around the 12th fret area to the 6th fret.

Regards

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#69 Post by Phil_b » Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:18 pm

I'd like to hear this Phil_b play it as he thinks its 'easy peasy


Blimey I wrote that so long ago I had forgotten about it. As for hearing me play it I can do that sometime for ya. Im pretty busy learning recital pieces for my Uni degree at the moment and thats pretty mental as i am doing 6 Vai, 2 Guthrie Govan, 1 Eric Johnson, 1 Jamie Humphries, 1 Planet X and 1 Dragonforce piece but as soon as thats past ill do a version on this sure.

Double downing is the same as economy picking so that isnt really what im on about but it does work well in some situations. I just meant the best way to build up speed in picking is keeping your movements to a minimum.

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#70 Post by Guitaruss » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:48 am

Cool cant wait for that Phil :D

What Guthrie pieces are you doing ? (i'm sure if you can play ANY Guthrie you can play trick bag lol)

btw Jamie Humphries has songs out !?

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#71 Post by Phil_b » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:19 am

The Guthrie pieces im doing are Fives and Sevens i did Wonderful Slippery Thing and Waves last year for my recitals as well. Jamie Humphries has about 3 songs out i think, the one i am playing is The Nashville Song which can be found on the album For Eric which is a Tribute to Eric Roche and the other to are on a small CD by cornford called Introducing and that has 2 songs by Guthrie and 2 by Jamie.

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#72 Post by Guitaruss » Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:03 am

Wow can i ask what vai pieces your doing too ?

Ive only seen Jamie on a couple of licklibrary dvds and to be honest i never found him that exciting..he was just teaching i suppose tho lol

Have you got any links to hear you playing i'd love to hear some :)

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#73 Post by Phil_b » Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:42 am

The Vai pieces im doing are

Building the Church
Jibboom
The Reaper
Im Becoming
Blue Powder
Kill The Guy With The Ball

As for Jamie Humphries I have seen him play a couple of times just jamming and playing his own stuff and he is pretty darn good I would say, he does do alot of teaching tho so thats probably why he hasn't released much more than he has.

And I have just put a couple of old demos on my new bands myspace at

http://www.myspace.com/crossfirecoventryuk

There isnt the best quality playing on there but I am recording a new album with this band of Vai/Guthrie/Planet X ish style stuff so when that is done I will let you no. We have just layed down the drum tracks a couple of days ago and that was pretty scary as our drummer is a monster so hopefully the rest will be done soon.

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#74 Post by Phil_b » Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:11 am

Also I forgot im doing a couple of Allan Holdsworth pieces aswell.

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#75 Post by Guitaruss » Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:06 am

Your myspace account cancelled Phil ?

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