composers who used polyrhythms frequently.....

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beckisagod
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#16 Post by beckisagod » Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:26 am

PifleChien wrote:A simple and elegant polyrythm idea, used by Fripp & Belew in one of the early 80's King Crimson record:

Play an 8th note arpeggio in a 4/4 loop. Now, your fellow guitarist or the second midi track will play the same arpeggio but in 7/8, that is playing it like the 4/4 but just omitting the last 8th. It creates a kind of moving delay.

Now, that is more an effect based on polyrythms than a real polyrythm which would have independant rythms intertwining, here the main 4/4 arpeggio is a kind of "master track" or "Dry Signal" :D but still, by mixing this basic idea with other stuff, you can create wonders.
Yeah, for example, that`s what`s going on in the chorus of "Frame By Frame"

McTastyfrets
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#17 Post by McTastyfrets » Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:18 am

Rush

Nikkoe
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#18 Post by Nikkoe » Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:02 am

I would say Gentle Giant, maybe...

matsimpson
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#19 Post by matsimpson » Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:59 am

:shock: i just tried that it sounds great! (the king crimson thing)

PifleChien
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#20 Post by PifleChien » Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:02 am

Yeah, well, Robert Fripp has played with and been cited as an influence by a crowd of diverse and talented musicians, and you can handpick ideas in the music he's produced and tweak each of them into new sonic territory!

I am especially fond of his interaction with Belew, like each note from an arpeggio being alternatively being played by one of them (and then harmonized, shifted etc), or this genius riff where they begin on the same note and shift a semi-tone in synch, one going up, the other going down...

Another one of this master's trick which floored me was with The League of Cratfy Guitarists... All the guys play a "bass" line and an arpeggio, and they shift the notes from one player to the other, gradually, from left to right and so on... Manual panning! (should be on the track "Asturias", if I'm not mistaken)

And, of course, for the rythmic ideas, KC is definitely a great place to dig in.

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#21 Post by auralperception » Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:07 am

Textures band.

the_grod
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#22 Post by the_grod » Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:54 am

Gday dude,
im not quite sure what you mean by polydadada.... but Dream Theater is very instrumental and progressive....creating this huge progressive movement throughout the song...awesome stuff, but mostly lead but guitar (John Petrucci)....isnt their stuff awesome???

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#23 Post by DiMarzio » Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:20 am

Planet X 8)

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#24 Post by feratu » Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:51 pm

PifleChien wrote:A simple and elegant polyrythm idea, used by Fripp & Belew in one of the early 80's King Crimson record:

Play an 8th note arpeggio in a 4/4 loop. Now, your fellow guitarist or the second midi track will play the same arpeggio but in 7/8, that is playing it like the 4/4 but just omitting the last 8th. It creates a kind of moving delay.

Now, that is more an effect based on polyrythms than a real polyrythm which would have independant rythms intertwining, here the main 4/4 arpeggio is a kind of "master track" or "Dry Signal" :D but still, by mixing this basic idea with other stuff, you can create wonders.


I don't think that's really a polyrhythm though cuz theyre playing the same rhythm in different time signatures. It would be if one guitarist played 8 even notes over one bar, and the other played 7 even notes over the bar...

http://www.vai.com/LittleBlackDots/tempomental.html
http://www.drumsdatabase.com/drums-polyrhythms.htm

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#25 Post by PifleChien » Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:31 pm

I see your point. Truly the 7/8 part in this song is subsidiary, still I think of it as being based on a polyrythm. Another example would be Matt Cameron's playing on Soundgarden's Mind Riot, a beautifully simple 3/4 over 4/4 on the verse.

I would say different time signatures and even different rythms (not complementary but conflicting) are polyrythms, as you have two distinct rythm lines playing against each other. Apart from the most extreme polyrythms which would have *nothing* in common, both rythm must share something, be it a beat, a bar or several bars being periodically in and out of synch. I don't think you can say that something is a polyrythm if and only if they have a different basic beat (in your example 7 : 8 ).
Last edited by PifleChien on Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:19 am, edited 3 times in total.

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#26 Post by ernzzz » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:14 am

PifleChien wrote:both rythm must share something, be it a beat, a bar or several bars being periodically in and out of synch.


well explained :idea:

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#27 Post by PifleChien » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:32 am

feratu wrote:http://www.drumsdatabase.com/drums-polyrhythms.htm


As I have now read your link (of course I had read tempo mental :wink: ), I can say I disagree with their definition, or rather that their definition is only valid within the scope covered in the article - the same as Steve's: subdivisions of the beat.

(As for Tempo Mental, Steve focuses on exploring notations for accidental, punctual and unusual variation of the subdivision of the beat. I'm guessing the topic was more oriented towards repeating patterns)

Now, I might be wrong, but a 12/8 over a 7/8 is a polyrythm to me if the two lines run simultaneously. If I'm wrong, if a rythm guru reads this, I'm really interested in what would be the right word, now.

As for the feeling I get when listening to it and the etymology, it definitely is a polyrythm :D

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#28 Post by LotusBrother » Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:34 am

Edgard Varese
Igor Stravinsky
Sergei Prokofiev
Béla Bartók
Pierre Boulez

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precario
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#29 Post by precario » Sun Jul 09, 2006 8:19 am

You should listen to Varese's Ionisation.

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#30 Post by glaburgl » Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:30 pm

Stravinsky
Planet X
Olivier Messiaen

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