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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 8:36 am 
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Hey guys!

I have a pretty dry overdriven rhythm guitar tone (a tad gainier than AC/DC) and when I boost for a solo, I want:

-a little bit more gain
-much more volume

However, putting an overdrive pedal (Bad Monkey/Cool Cat Transparent OD or even a MXR Micro Amp) in front of my tube amp gives me barely any volume (cuz the preamp tubes' headroom is maxed out) and gives me more gain than I could ever need resulting in a crappy overcompressed fuzz sound even when I crank the volume knob and reel in the gain knob.

Also, putting these pedals in the effects loop/between the pre and power amps results in the opposite: massive volume range (extremely sensitive knob) and a complete change in the entire tone and gain structure.

This problem seems to be almost historical but everyone has a different way of doing it. I'd like to do it with as little cables as necessary but am open to new suggestions.

I am very interested in some of the creative ways you guys deal with this if this is actually an issue for you at all. Thank you in advance for your time--highly appreciated!!


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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 8:33 pm 
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i'd like to know more

guitar
but most importantly what kind of amp- exact make/model

and tell me about the pedals in front or in the loop


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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 5:04 am 
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Did you also try with a graphic EQ pedal instead of distortion?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:03 pm 
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Jeries wrote:
i'd like to know more

guitar
but most importantly what kind of amp- exact make/model

and tell me about the pedals in front or in the loop


Currently:
Super-strat (w/ a Tone Zone in bridge) going into:
1. Boss Tuner
2. Digitech Bad Monkey (volume maxed, gain @ 9:00)
3. Line 6 Spider Valve HD100 mkII (all tube pre and power amp)
That's all. Everything's in front, in that order. Nothing in the loop.

When I hit the Bad Monkey for a solo, I get the gain but the volume increase is nothing. And it sounds really weird in the fx loop--I get the volume but whole tone changes beyond control of the treble and bass knobs on the Monkey.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:23 pm 
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well first.
don't use an overdrive in the fx loop

i'll explain in a min.

i would strongly recommend a better overdrive like a Tubescreamer- or even a boss super overdrive is good- and pretty cheap used.

I think one of those would give you more response in volume and more room to BOOST

if you used an EQ pedal in the fx loop that might give you the boost you need...


Now why you shouldnt put an overdrive in the fx loop-
overdrives are supposed to OVER DRIVE the amp- push the tubes to crazy for gain/cool sound- without blowing up your amp

how MOST fx loops work is- regardless of anything before it- whatever you put in the return goes straight to the poweramp and is amplified- so technically- for most amps... if you plugged in a computer into the fxloop return (i don't recommend it) the EQ/preamp section most likely have no effect at all on the sound you hear---

over drives need to come before the gain/preamp- otherwise you'll be boosting/overdriving what has ALREADY BEEN THROUGH THE TUBES- does that make sense? so you need the OD before so it gives something the preamp can sizzle from- make sense?

----


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:28 pm 
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also-
another thought-

you probably like your amp and its not a cheap head either...

but i'm thinking the digital/modling part of your amp is making the amp behave 'uncharacteristically' of a normal tube amp

in my opinion you may be better off with something like a Crate Blue Voodoo head- or a Marshall JCM2000- like a TSL100 for example.... or maybe for a little more money a Mesa Boogie Dual or Triple Rec...

put any of those amps with a tubescreamer and maybe an ISP decimator for noise reduction and you got a great rig---

if you use the effects/modling options- buy a good chorus/delay/etc and you should be fine- like a boss super chorus or a Line6 DL-4 and your set.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:13 am 
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Jeries wrote:
also-
another thought-

you probably like your amp and its not a cheap head either...

but i'm thinking the digital/modling part of your amp is making the amp behave 'uncharacteristically' of a normal tube amp

in my opinion you may be better off with something like a Crate Blue Voodoo head- or a Marshall JCM2000- like a TSL100 for example.... or maybe for a little more money a Mesa Boogie Dual or Triple Rec...

put any of those amps with a tubescreamer and maybe an ISP decimator for noise reduction and you got a great rig---

if you use the effects/modling options- buy a good chorus/delay/etc and you should be fine- like a boss super chorus or a Line6 DL-4 and your set.


wow--great info--thanks for the info man!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:23 am 
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Samuele wrote:
Did you also try with a graphic EQ pedal instead of distortion?


+1, EQ pedals are good for boosting


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:12 am 
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I think there is a rumor that Eddie Van Halen used at least one graphic EQ (maybe even two) in the old days to boost his signal.


This is an interesting article that maybe sheds some light on the various kinds of distortion, including suggestions on boosting .

"Secrets of Saturation"
http://digital.premierguitar.com/premierguitar/201109_1/#pg118


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 7:24 pm 
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dose your guitar have a volume knob ? if you are in a band do you or your band members know anything about dynamics,.?

too many here think there is gear for everything but the 2 things here should solve your problem.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 7:56 am 
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Look up "clean boost" pedals. In the loop, or in front of the amp. Works fine either way. I use a LBP1 in the loop and have it set to about 12:00 and I punch it in once in a while for solos just to get me over the top when the FOH of guy isnt paying attention.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 10:22 am 
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I use a DS-1 as a gain boost in front of my X100B, and a marshall bluesbreakerII in "boost" mode for a volume boost in the loop. I use both when I need a solo boost.


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 7:38 pm 
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I've found that running a boost pedal in front of my gain doesn't result in added volume, just more gain. When I'm using pedals for distortion, putting the boost after the distortion gives the desired volume boost. I've seen the suggestion of putting a clean boost in the effects loop.

When I had the Peavey JSX, it had volume knobs for both the effects send and return. If you set them a certain way, the loop footswitch button worked as a solo boost. That might be an option. (I don't remember the settings. One all the way left, and one all the way right.)

Fortunately, my Mesa Mark V has a solo boost built in.


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