My engine of creation.

The name says it all! Discuss Steve's studios, your studios and gear set-ups, amps and effects here. This is not for discussing guitars (Steve's or otherwise).
anuj
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If you were a Mac user, I would recommend MOTU hardware and Logic, no questions asked.

If you're a PC user, I would, well, recommend a switch to the Mac side. :P

~A
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bennyvx78
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Im shall not give in, I shall be forever a pc user.
anuj
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OK :)

Ideology clearly trumps usefulness :P

~A
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bennyvx78
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So what we got here is MOTU vs DIGIDESIGN. and a proper soundcard
and a interface. Isn't that all I need? Perhaps 2 good monitors...
Patill
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First, what you wanna hear: If you buy the Digidesign thing you have all you need to get started (of course you´ll need a mic^^). Or you use the Line out of your amp. Either way, you have everything home studio wise to record to your PC in top quality. If you only buy the MOTU thing you´ll need some things extra to get started. You can´t record without a Sequencer (Cubase, Logic, ProTools), and without Plugins you´ll be screwed, too, as long as if you´re not a supernatural Stevie Ray Vaughan guy (even he had keyboards from time to time) or have a drumset at home to record the drums yourself. Oh, and the bass, too ;).

All you need is the 003 Rack with Factory OR the things I´ve listed:

"
MOTU 828 MK3: 714 Euro
Cubase 5/Logic Studio: 550 Euro
Plugins: 500-700 Euro (make it even 300-500 more actually...)

Total: 1764,-

"

The Digi 003 Rack has the plugins and the sequencer included already and is in your price range without any quality loss. Plus this sequencer is used by absolutely most music colleges and universities and top producers (if you ever finish a record and give it to somebody for a good mixdown). I´m really repeating myself here, don´t I :lol:....and no, I´m not a Digidesign merchandise man :mrgreen:.

I´ve had Cubase and Logic before, both can´t mess with ProTools. And I read all the manual so I know how to use it in full. Really cool. The most impressed I was with the Plugins included, full blown for good mixes and sounds. I´m really working with this thing and I´ve been working with Cubase before, never going back. My opinion on this.

Steve does work with ProTools, too if that makes you feel any better :lol:.

Of course, you can buy all that other stuff and also get top quality, no discussion about that!!!


Monitors are of course another thing to perfection, but without good quality equipment you don´t need monitors. So save some more money for them ;). Get good recording equipment first.



P.S.: You should get a Mac^^.
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bennyvx78
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No, I was thinkin' about a xtra mic. Are there any other great ones
besides the shure sm57? And does a diffrent mic. in conjuction with the
sm57 really add a diffrent color to the sound?
Ok digidesign it is then.. :D. Thanks ..
wasoota
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See, I told you you would. :roll:

Patill, by naming the MOTU 828 Mk3 you're comparing the price of an interface that's several times as powerful as a Digi 003 with a Digi 003. That's hardly helpful. A Porsche is more expensive than a Volkswagen. No surprise there.

A good 96kHz USB-interface like the Edirol EX25 (two ins) costs a mere €200.

The Presonus Firepod, a 10-in/10-out 96kHz interface, well-received by the press and reviews one might add, is not even €400. That one, again, works as a mixer on it's own, i.e. doesn't need a computer hooked up and turned on for you to play through it. If you ever have more than just your guitar hooked up you'll see the utility in that. It's a rack mixer and an interface.
If you want just two ins on firewire, you can get a good interface like the Presonus Audiobox for as little €150. Less than stellar interfaces at 96kHz cost you a sixpack and a burger.

Because their hardware is simply not state of the art, Digi doesn't win on price. The 828Mk3 mops the floor with a Digi003. Of course it's more expensive.


Digidesign does win on the "all included, plug it in and go" front though. At the cost of your freedom of choice (from hardware right down to how many tracks you're allowed to have per session). That's for each to weigh on their own.
Patill
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wasoota wrote: Patill, by naming the MOTU 828 Mk3 you're comparing the price of an interface that's several times as powerful as a Digi 003 with a Digi 003.
I really would like to know what you mean by "several times as powerful". I cant see anything where that´s coming from when I look at the specs of both. They´re the same.

The only difference is the 192 kHz (which is also limited), but that´s just insane considering when buying such a thing. If you really go for 192 kHz sample rate you´d never buy a MOTU for 700, add one 0, then double or triple if you like, that´s what they buy. People who really need 192 kHz don´t go for a "cheap" MOTU thing (they don´t even make music...).
I told you that these sample rate dimensions are even hardly used by DVD Pros, and for Music, using these would just be stupid. Also, the 003 is absolutely capable of DVD sample rates. What else do you want? He´s not even going to make a DVD ;).

BTW, the S/PDIF on the MOTU is also only 96 kHZ (even that´s too much you´ll ever need for music). And this standalone mixer thing is, as I said not really considerable when playing live, since you can´t tweak anything with a simple handwave.


Remember, a CD is set to 44.1 kHz and nothing else. Why would you ever want to work at 192 kHz? There´s even a debate if you should go to 48 kHz. 192 kHz is just insane^^.

Like I said, the MOTU thing may be a good working unit, but it´s not better than Digidesigns 003. I also don´t say the 003 is better, they´re pretty much even. Now you can look at the prices. The MOTU is highly overpriced.

@benny: I just bought a Beerdynamic M160 and I really like it. Not necessary though, you can get about the same sound if you place the mics the right way, the advantage is that you can mix both mics as you wish and add another sound by doing that. I´m happy with my second mic, though I could do my work with only one ;). Planning to get a third one ^^.
wasoota
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You're missing my point. All I'm saying is to compare similar units if you are going to make an argument that you're getting more for your money.

As I think I illustrated, if you compare similar units with the 003, the price argument is negligible. For €400 you're well in business, leaving €600 for the DAW of your choice, prices for which start at zero (e.g. Ardour, Audacity) or $59 upwards (EnergyXT, Reaper) respectively. It's not 2005 anymore. (Some) Good stuff is actually affordable. :mrgreen:
Patill
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wasoota wrote:You're missing my point. All I'm saying is to compare similar units if you are going to make an argument that you're getting more for your money.

As I think I illustrated, if you compare similar units with the 003, the price argument is negligible. For €400 you're well in business, leaving €600 for the DAW of your choice, prices for which start at zero (e.g. Ardour, Audacity) or $59 upwards (EnergyXT, Reaper) respectively. It's not 2005 anymore. (Some) Good stuff is actually affordable. :mrgreen:
yes, of course I compared^^. I´ve been working with an E-MU before and some other stuff.

But if you say, you´re well in business for €400 and having €600 for the DAW, that´s just what the 003 and ProTools cost :mrgreen:. I don´t know if you understood me all the time, but that´s what I´m saying...plus you have the Plugins, you know? They cost an a** full of money if you have to buy them alone. And those are things you need, otherwise your mix is bad.

A good song is nothing without a good mix.
anuj
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The range of plugins that ships with Logic is pretty damn stellar. :) Generally, you need good ears more than you need to spend $$$ on plugins for a good mix.

~A
Patill
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anuj wrote:The range of plugins that ships with Logic is pretty damn stellar. :) Generally, you need good ears more than you need to spend $$$ on plugins for a good mix.

~A

well, without the plugins, you can´t use your good ears^^. It´s not just about increasing and decreasing the volume of some track. Things like Compressors and Reverb are absolutely essential for a nice mix. Just like drums and bass, concerning virtural instriuments. You have to spend (mostly lots of) money on that, otherwise your mix won´t sound good.
Just like a plugin adding smooth distortion to your sound. This may be one of the most important parts, just when you add a little distortion to every single track (even the clean guitar, voice, drums) the sound gets absolutely full and warm and gets the little thing that´s missing.

€300-400 for a plugin like that...

Of course EQs are essential, too, but everybody should know that ;). Even they can drive you crazy at the beginning.
anuj
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Man, you really, really, really need to do some research - you sound like you're stuck in 1998. :) Are you aware of the scope of what you get out of the box with most modern DAW software (and, say, Logic in particular)?

~A
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Instrumentalrockrocks
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I have done quite much recent research for these interfaces.

First of all:
whatever product you buy: make sure it uses firewire for transport. It is kind of hard to explain, but firewire is simply waaaay faster then usb. just read this: http://www.usb-ware.com/firewire-vs-usb.htm and you know it!

Secondly:
What do you actually want? How many inputs, outputs, how do you want to use it? (for live AND studio use or just studio or just live :) )

Probably the best deal right now is the M-Audio Profire http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFire2626.html, just because of its specs:

196 kHz / 24 bits recording (a very high standard, believe me :) )
26 tracks simultaneous playback; 26 x 26 simultaneous I/O
8 combi xlr / jack inputs (thats reaaaly handy)
TWO headphone outputs with volume knob :D

and the greatest thing about this device is it's compatibility with pro tools AND all the other software on the market, and ofcourse its price tag: 499 euros and with your budget you can buy two and link them together.

Then all you need is a good midi controller and you really have a professional home based studio.

The actual quality of this device is in it's high A/D converters... the actual output sound of the on board preamps is veeeery good too... For this price (and trust me, I ve seen them all the past few weeks, doing my research) there is nothing as good as this one... The only device in this price range that would come close is the Focusrite saffire pro 10 and saffire pro 26... only they are discontinued. (and the follow up of these devices (saffire pro 24 and so on) aren't as good as the older models, the older ones had for example 192 kHz / 24 Bit recording, however the new ones have 96 kHz at 24 bit...

But probably the best advice is:
1: go to your local musical instrument store.
2: take a mic
3: record with the same mic on different interfaces the same sound.
4: just listen. :P

But I must say it is very important that you buy a device wich is capable of handling at least 8 simultaneous tracks..

Hope this helps :)
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Instrumentalrockrocks
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Patill wrote:
wasoota wrote: The advantage is that when you're just performing, you have the same rig. The size of your live act permitting, you save money and packing space on a mixer and can convert your rig from performance to recording setup simply by plugging it into a computer. No extra connections required.
You also don´t need a mixer if you record live on ProTools?!
wasoota wrote: What's special about it is that most audio interfaces don't work unless they're attached to a computer. For example, the way things are set up now in my current band, when the Sax player takes home his macbook and goes on vacation for a week, the interface (M-Audio profire or something) is worthless and the whole monitoring system basically inoperable, unless you rewire everything around the interface (and back again when he comes back). That would not be the case with e.g. a MOTU 828.

Of course, if money and time are not an issue, none of this may sound very convincing. :wink:
oh, so you only talk about that you can monitor the band with that thing without a mixer?

And how do you bring dynamics in, how does the mixer (I mean the human being standing by the unit) tweak your sound? With such a little unit and no controllers to grab in front of you this is gonna be a pain in the ass. Especially if a song is rolling.


If I had to buy something I´d go with ProTools/Digidesign. Like I said, it´s standard almost everywhere you go, and that´s for reason. Dididesign never sleeps.

Oh, and price wise:

MOTU 828 MK3: 714 Euro
Cubase 5: 550 Euro
Plugins: 500-700 Euro

Total: 1764,-

He says he had 1000 Euros only.


Digidesign has all included and costs 1000 Euro. And is better quality wise, I´d bet my ass for that. You do also only have 2 Mic inputs on this MOTU thing.

PLUS you get the Factory Bundle with effects you do need no matter what (which would be another 500-1000 Euro) and the Ignition Pack 2.

Actually, I start to wonder where all these 714 Euros should come from, the Digidesign unit has way more possibilities, inputs, outputs and a sequencer with high end effects is included.
The quality of the effects in digidesign might be good, but you're underestimating the other VST plugins on the market... take for instance the WAVES effects packs... those are just about the best quality effects you can get, and most of the digidesign professional studio users would probably prefer these above the "build in" effects in ProTools itself.

And I must add; Digidesign might be a bit overpriced... All M-audio stuff works fine with ProTools at half of the price of the Digidesign hardware.
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