My engine of creation.

The name says it all! Discuss Steve's studios, your studios and gear set-ups, amps and effects here. This is not for discussing guitars (Steve's or otherwise).
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bennyvx78
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hey all you beautifull people.

Just one simple question, Im goin' to change my soundcard in
my pc. I need one for rec. and making music. If I got 1000,- Euro's.
Wich one should I get? (and for external gear? for plugging mics etc. ) ..
And it has to be availlable in Europe.
Jeries
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don't touch the sound card...
get external hardware

get a Digidesign Mbox
protools is the industry standard and getting into it now will put you at an advantage then using crappy hardware and more primative software (cakewalk-cooleditpro-ect)
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bennyvx78
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Alright. Is there any diffrence between the fastrack ultra and the
mbox?
Patill
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don´t get an MBox, get a Digi 003 Rack.

With that money you can afford the bigger one ;).
wasoota
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Don't buy anything digidesign unless you're sure you want to use their gear forever and ever and ever. It's good (although not great) stuff, but moreover, it's basically a glorified dongle for Protools, i.e. Protools won't run without it. The guaranteed compatibility may have been reassuring in the early days, nowdays where that is usually decided on an OS level, it's just good old monopolizing. Tie your customers in and milk them.

Logic, Live and Cubase (to name three) are fine pieces of software that don't require you use particular hardware for it to run. Unless you're aiming to become a sound engineer, who cares what the industry standard is? (What industry's standard, anyway?) It's about options and choice. Why limit yourself to such a fraction of the hardware market so early on?

Just my 2c.

Check out the MOTU 828 Mk2 USB, for example. Since the Mk3 firewire version came out, the price of the Mk2 has been halved - for a fantastic piece of hardware. It'll even run on its own as a mixer. Try that with a 003. :roll:
Patill
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I switched to ProTools from Cobase and I mean never to go back.

Digidesign seems to have their people producing a song and telling the engineers what you really need to ease it up. They create new shortcuts, new tools and new things to increase performance all the time. For me, Digidesign is a way to go. And having to run with ProTools all the way through (which is not true, why should he have to do that??????) should be more like an advantage than a curse.




And why is ProTools not great stuff? All the music production colleges work with ProTools in the first place. So do most of the producers.

wasoota wrote:It'll even run on its own as a mixer. Try that with a 003.
what´s that supposed to mean?
wasoota
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Patill wrote:
wasoota wrote:It'll even run on its own as a mixer. Try that with a 003.
what´s that supposed to mean?
That you can set the channel routings, unplug the 828 and take it to a gig and mix all the ins and outs standalone, without the computer, like with a mixer. The 828 Mk3 even has built in effects for your direct monitoring.

What I mean about being stuck with Digidesign is that due to the lack of interoperability, you are for example effectively dumping Protools (and everything you've learned on it so far) if you want something other than a digidesign interface - because the interface is the dongle. You can't dump the hardware unless you're dumping the software. No other DAW has that problem.

As for "good, not great": Just off the cuff, the 003 rack only samples at 96kHz max. That's the same as the MOTU 828 Mk2 I mentioned, but the latter is basically an end-of-line product. All the newer MOTU stuff (which one might add is already a year old or more) samples at 192kHz. Same with Edirol. - So 96kHz is a pretty low max. sample rate to peddle these days. Without blushing at least.


FWIW, I'm not questioning Protools is good software, I'm just pointing out that before you commit, you should carefully weigh the fact that it won't run with other hardware. To me, that's a deal-breaker. I like to use anything I want, so Digidesign is out of the picture.
Patill
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wasoota wrote: That you can set the channel routings, unplug the 828 and take it to a gig and mix all the ins and outs standalone, without the computer, like with a mixer. The 828 Mk3 even has built in effects for your direct monitoring.
ah ok, I understadn now. But who would do that? This is absolutely unproductive doing it that way, since this may get veeery complicated with this small unit. Ok, you have to bring your laptop or even desktop PC, but do you wanna record live or not^^?
wasoota wrote: What I mean about being stuck with Digidesign is that due to the lack of interoperability, you are for example effectively dumping Protools (and everything you've learned on it so far) if you want something other than a digidesign interface - because the interface is the dongle. You can't dump the hardware unless you're dumping the software. No other DAW has that problem.
Absolutely nothing wrong with Digidesigns Hardware. Though you can add another hardware if you need to.
wasoota wrote: FWIW, I'm not questioning Protools is good software, I'm just pointing out that before you commit, you should carefully weigh the fact that it won't run with other hardware. To me, that's a deal-breaker. I like to use anything I want, so Digidesign is out of the picture.
It does run with other hardware, you just need the Digi Hardware to enter ProTools. Since it comes with it that´s no big deal. Like I said, the 003 Hardware is absolutely fine.


Another thing: ProTools comes with a lot more and, above all, much better Plugins than Cubase does. To name it, Cubase doesn´t come with anything useful at all. Everybody wants to lay some nice synth or ambience effects/sounds under his songs from time to time, and if you wanna buy something useful for Cubase, you´ll shoot over his price limit. Digidesign includes that all within the price and same quality as if you buy them seperate.
wasoota
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Patill wrote:
wasoota wrote: That you can set the channel routings, unplug the 828 and take it to a gig and mix all the ins and outs standalone, without the computer, like with a mixer. The 828 Mk3 even has built in effects for your direct monitoring.
ah ok, I understadn now. But who would do that? This is absolutely unproductive doing it that way, since this may get veeery complicated with this small unit. Ok, you have to bring your laptop or even desktop PC, but do you wanna record live or not^^?
Well, you don't need an additional mixer, obviously, and when you decide to record a live gig, all you have to do is plug it into a computer. Any computer. How is that unproductive?
Patill
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wasoota wrote:
Patill wrote:
wasoota wrote: That you can set the channel routings, unplug the 828 and take it to a gig and mix all the ins and outs standalone, without the computer, like with a mixer. The 828 Mk3 even has built in effects for your direct monitoring.
ah ok, I understadn now. But who would do that? This is absolutely unproductive doing it that way, since this may get veeery complicated with this small unit. Ok, you have to bring your laptop or even desktop PC, but do you wanna record live or not^^?
Well, you don't need an additional mixer, obviously, and when you decide to record a live gig, all you have to do is plug it into a computer. Any computer. How is that unproductive?

hmm? I don´t understand. Now what´s special about this? When I wanna record a band live, I take the Digi 003 (which is already in my rack anyway) and my computer with me, what´s the advantage of your thing then^^?
wasoota
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Patill wrote:
wasoota wrote:Well, you don't need an additional mixer, obviously, and when you decide to record a live gig, all you have to do is plug it into a computer. Any computer. How is that unproductive?
hmm? I don´t understand. Now what´s special about this? When I wanna record a band live, I take the Digi 003 (which is already in my rack anyway) and my computer with me, what´s the advantage of your thing then^^?
The advantage is that when you're just performing, you have the same rig. The size of your live act permitting, you save money and packing space on a mixer and can convert your rig from performance to recording setup simply by plugging it into a computer. No extra connections required.

What's special about it is that most audio interfaces don't work unless they're attached to a computer. For example, the way things are set up now in my current band, when the Sax player takes home his macbook and goes on vacation for a week, the interface (M-Audio profire or something) is worthless and the whole monitoring system basically inoperable, unless you rewire everything around the interface (and back again when he comes back). That would not be the case with e.g. a MOTU 828.

Of course, if money and time are not an issue, none of this may sound very convincing. :wink:
Patill
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wasoota wrote: The advantage is that when you're just performing, you have the same rig. The size of your live act permitting, you save money and packing space on a mixer and can convert your rig from performance to recording setup simply by plugging it into a computer. No extra connections required.
You also don´t need a mixer if you record live on ProTools?!
wasoota wrote: What's special about it is that most audio interfaces don't work unless they're attached to a computer. For example, the way things are set up now in my current band, when the Sax player takes home his macbook and goes on vacation for a week, the interface (M-Audio profire or something) is worthless and the whole monitoring system basically inoperable, unless you rewire everything around the interface (and back again when he comes back). That would not be the case with e.g. a MOTU 828.

Of course, if money and time are not an issue, none of this may sound very convincing. :wink:
oh, so you only talk about that you can monitor the band with that thing without a mixer?

And how do you bring dynamics in, how does the mixer (I mean the human being standing by the unit) tweak your sound? With such a little unit and no controllers to grab in front of you this is gonna be a pain in the ass. Especially if a song is rolling.


If I had to buy something I´d go with ProTools/Digidesign. Like I said, it´s standard almost everywhere you go, and that´s for reason. Dididesign never sleeps.

Oh, and price wise:

MOTU 828 MK3: 714 Euro
Cubase 5: 550 Euro
Plugins: 500-700 Euro

Total: 1764,-

He says he had 1000 Euros only.


Digidesign has all included and costs 1000 Euro. And is better quality wise, I´d bet my ass for that. You do also only have 2 Mic inputs on this MOTU thing.

PLUS you get the Factory Bundle with effects you do need no matter what (which would be another 500-1000 Euro) and the Ignition Pack 2.

Actually, I start to wonder where all these 714 Euros should come from, the Digidesign unit has way more possibilities, inputs, outputs and a sequencer with high end effects is included.
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bennyvx78
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Well, Why don't I just try that digidesign thing first, If that doesn't
work out. I can always look for an alternative. I don't have any aspirations
to become a prof. recording artist. And rarely go outside to play. So Im doing
purely as a hobby. But having the best stuff doesn't hurt.
wasoota
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Patill wrote:
wasoota wrote: He says he had 1000 Euros only.
He said he wants a soundcard or interface. The 828 Mk2 is priced at around €300 now if you can still find one. As an interface, it's roughly on par with the 003s but has some additional features. The Mk3 however is significantly more powerful. Just read the specs.

Relax man, I'm sure you have a good rig and you're obviously happy with it. Nothing wrong with considering alternatives though.
bennyvx78 wrote:Well, Why don't I just try that digidesign thing first, If that doesn't
work out. I can always look for an alternative. I don't have any aspirations
to become a prof. recording artist. And rarely go outside to play. So Im doing
purely as a hobby. But having the best stuff doesn't hurt.
Seriously, since we're talking DAWs here as well now, e.g. Reaper and EnergyXT are fully featured DAWs that cost $60 and $59. Don't let the price fool you, they are loaded with probably all the features you'll ever need (don't just take my word for it, google it).

http://www.reaper.fm/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.energy-xt.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you first just want to see how it goes, why not try something like that? Just because you'd be willing to spend €1000 off the bat doesn't mean you have to. Get a decent interface for a couple of hundred € and play around with it for a year, then see where you want to go. None of that money will be wasted, and you may see that's all you need.

Bah, you'll probably go out and get the digi anyway, but now I'll be that nagging voice in the back of your head. Don't do it! Open your mind! Keep your freedom! :mrgreen:
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bennyvx78
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Im not 'That' Stubborn ;) :D
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