Keeley DS1 sounds like crap thru legacy

The name says it all! Discuss Steve's studios, your studios and gear set-ups, amps and effects here. This is not for discussing guitars (Steve's or otherwise).
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al
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Re: Keeley DS1 sounds like crap thru legacy

#16 Post by al » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:35 pm

whaaaaaat, you cant get the same tone with steves gear!

who woulda guessed, if it doesnt sound good change it till it sounds good and you get your tone... maybe im jus bias towards buying sig gear

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Re: Keeley DS1 sounds like crap thru legacy

#17 Post by Jeries » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:23 am

Steve did use the keeley ds1 for a long while-
but most recently he used just an old japanese early 80s boss ds1

there is so much more to Steve's tone than just an amp guitar and a few pedals

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Re: Keeley DS1 sounds like crap thru legacy

#18 Post by Bigtrex257 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:15 pm

Jeries wrote:Steve did use the keeley ds1 for a long while-
but most recently he used just an old japanese early 80s boss ds1

there is so much more to Steve's tone than just an amp guitar and a few pedals
ABSOLUTELY! That is why Steve sounds like Steve on ANY amp he has used throughout his career. Whether it was the Carvin X100-B, a Marshall JMP/JCM800-900/etc, a Bogner, an Egnater, and now the Legacy, Steve sounds like Steve because of his hands and how he plays. Yes, the gear helps, but it only brings out certain nuances that he wants to accentuate in what is naturally there.

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Re: Keeley DS1 sounds like crap thru legacy

#19 Post by Patill » Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:33 am

Jeries wrote: there is so much more to Steve's tone than just an amp guitar and a few pedals
You are so wrong ;)
Check out this guy, not Steve Vai but same sound:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aVfc8BQ ... re=channel

Tone, as you define it is the uniqueness of every musician, so it depends on note combinations and things yu play and prefer to hear.

Sound comes out of the amp and is almost not changable by your fingers. You can hold the pick in different ways, hammer on, pull off, bend, all that stuff. But that "modulation" is about 10 %, the rest of the sound (which would be 90 % ;) ) comes out of the guitar, amp and its wood and electrical components. You know what I mean? You can´t change a Fender Strat to a Les Paul with your fingers, or a Legacy into a Marshall. that is sound, and you need diferent electrical gear to reach a certain sound, and that has nothing to do with what somebody plays. So anybody who will play a Legacy, will sund like playing through a Legacy. Thatfor, I think the reason why a Keeley DS-1 sounds good when Steve plays it, it is his experience in combining effects with amps because he knows how to dial the knobs.


My stock DS-1 works fine with the Legacy btw...donn´t know about the keeley one because it is so much more present concerning the sound...but remember, that Steve is running two legacys and they may have different settings. I´d set the Keeley DS-1 very low to boost the legacy...

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Re: Keeley DS1 sounds like crap thru legacy

#20 Post by Shade » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:18 am

Patill wrote:
Jeries wrote: there is so much more to Steve's tone than just an amp guitar and a few pedals
You are so wrong ;)
Check out this guy, not Steve Vai but same sound:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aVfc8BQ ... re=channel

Tone, as you define it is the uniqueness of every musician, so it depends on note combinations and things yu play and prefer to hear.

Sound comes out of the amp and is almost not changable by your fingers. You can hold the pick in different ways, hammer on, pull off, bend, all that stuff. But that "modulation" is about 10 %, the rest of the sound (which would be 90 % ;) ) comes out of the guitar, amp and its wood and electrical components. You know what I mean? You can´t change a Fender Strat to a Les Paul with your fingers, or a Legacy into a Marshall. that is sound, and you need diferent electrical gear to reach a certain sound, and that has nothing to do with what somebody plays. So anybody who will play a Legacy, will sund like playing through a Legacy. Thatfor, I think the reason why a Keeley DS-1 sounds good when Steve plays it, it is his experience in combining effects with amps because he knows how to dial the knobs.
In short: Absolutely not, player >>>>>> gear.


"I think the reason why a Keeley DS-1 sounds good when Steve plays it, it is his experience in combining effects with amps because he knows how to dial the knobs."


Or maybe its because it's Vai and would sound awesome through any setup :roll: :roll: :roll: . This should be common knowledge by now because of how much the issue has been hammered into the ground and proven again and again to be true.

Someone with no mastery of their instrument literally -sounds- like poop even with really great gear. While someone who has a great amount of skill can make even shoddy gear sound great. If you've ever seen noobish local bands play, you'll know what I mean.

On the other hand, the actual sound that comes from the amp probably can't be changed much by how someone plays. However, the point is that a lot of the perceived tone comes from the player. So saying the sound "has nothing to do with what somebody plays" is absolutely wrong on more levels than I care to point out right now. Arguing that is like arguing that we don't have free will because there is only one course of actions that will ultimately happen. Regardless of whether everything is fated or not doesn't matter because we all have the perception of being able to make choices that effect future outcomes.

Just to restate it: Even if in reality the player can't really effect the "sound" that comes from the amplifier, the fact that the perception that other people have of the sound that comes out of the amplifier is altered based on -who- is playing is enough grounds to completely disprove the idea that gear is more important than the player when determining "tone".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9v5e1TTwts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Thanks.

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Re: Keeley DS1 sounds like crap thru legacy

#21 Post by Patill » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:32 pm

Shade wrote: Or maybe its because it's Vai and would sound awesome through any setup :roll: :roll: :roll: .
I bet I can set an amp a way where Steve will sound like crap! Soundwaves will remain soundwaves, no matter who plays the guitar. As I hear you speak I could mean you wanna tell me Steve didn´t need an amp because he can make the guitar loud with his fingers :lol:


And if you don´t hear it´s a Strat with singlecoils Satriani is playing you need to work on your experience. I´m not talking about the melody (well this is deinately surfing with th alien :roll:), I´m talking about the sound. And a s a guitar player you should be able to seperate sound from melody....

And no, Satriani can´t make this Strat sound like his signature Ibanez :wink:. I hope you agree with me, otherwise I think you don´t have the experience :(. Just listen to the sound of myvideo, you can hear it´s a Legacy and you can hear it´s Vai´s sound.

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Re: Keeley DS1 sounds like crap thru legacy

#22 Post by Shade » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:52 pm

Patill wrote:
Shade wrote: Or maybe its because it's Vai and would sound awesome through any setup :roll: :roll: :roll: .
I bet I can set an amp a way where Steve will sound like crap! Soundwaves will remain soundwaves, no matter who plays the guitar. As I hear you speak I could mean you wanna tell me Steve didn´t need an amp because he can make the guitar loud with his fingers :lol:


And if you don´t hear it´s a Strat with singlecoils Satriani is playing you need to work on your experience. I´m not talking about the melody (well this is deinately surfing with th alien :roll:), I´m talking about the sound. And a s a guitar player you should be able to seperate sound from melody....

And no, Satriani can´t make this Strat sound like his signature Ibanez :wink:. I hope you agree with me, otherwise I think you don´t have the experience :(. Just listen to the sound of myvideo, you can hear it´s a Legacy and you can hear it´s Vai´s sound.
I didn't say he could make it sound like his signature Ibanez, that wasn't the implication.

I realize that soundwaves are soundwaves, but I feel like we aren't even arguing about the same thing. Of course you can't make a strat sound like a les paul. Thats because they have completely different instruments. But you are vastly underestimating the importance the player has in the perceived sound.

Someone with poor technique will sound like crap. Plug some noob into a Carvin Legacy halfstack and he'll still sound lame. But someone with good technique, even through a lame 10 watt no name buzz-box amp would be able to make it sustain and scream. Bending, vibrato, just having more 'control' over the instrument leads to a better perceived sound. It doesn't matter what some reading on a dial about the difference in soundwaves.

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Re: Keeley DS1 sounds like crap thru legacy

#23 Post by Patill » Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:02 pm

Shade wrote:
I didn't say he could make it sound like his signature Ibanez, that wasn't the implication.

I realize that soundwaves are soundwaves, but I feel like we aren't even arguing about the same thing. Of course you can't make a strat sound like a les paul. Thats because they have completely different instruments. But you are vastly underestimating the importance the player has in the perceived sound.

Someone with poor technique will sound like crap. Plug some noob into a Carvin Legacy halfstack and he'll still sound lame. But someone with good technique, even through a lame 10 watt no name buzz-box amp would be able to make it sustain and scream. Bending, vibrato, just having more 'control' over the instrument leads to a better perceived sound. It doesn't matter what some reading on a dial about the difference in soundwaves.

Yes, what you are describing is defined as "tone" as far as I know :).

But I´m talking about sound :). I mean amplified waves that go through specific resistors, trafos condensers etc. to sound a certain (and no other) way. And that can only be changed up to 10 % by your playing style (pick angle etc.). That´s what I mean by that.

Tone is how somebody expresses his feelings on the instrument, of course that makes him "sound" (weird ;) ) a certain way. But what you hear if you listen to the sound of an amp, a guitar etc. played by different people will always be the same, because there is still the same resistors and condensers in it :). Otherwise we would only need one amp for everybody because everybody sounds different anyway.

But there´s a lot of amps from a lot of different manufacturers, and they are there for reason I think :)

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Re: Keeley DS1 sounds like crap thru legacy

#24 Post by Shade » Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:20 pm

But when it comes to perceived sound/tone/noise whatever you want to call it. Steve Vai will "sound" completely different than someone plugged into the same gear with the same settings.

If you wanna call that "tone", that's fine. I think I get what you're saying now :).

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Re: Keeley DS1 sounds like crap thru legacy

#25 Post by Patill » Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:21 am

yes, that´s what I mean :).

Basicly I´m saying, that his DS-1 from Keeley does not sound bad because he can´t play the guitar ;). I think he will have to ial himself in, and not just with the effects knobs, but also with the amps knobs, also the G-Force Steve used back then has an EQ, so...

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