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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 5:56 am 
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Big Bad Bill wrote:
The only thing I can thing of it the ability to respond appropriately and with minimal time lag and at a low gain to feed back from your movement. [/color]


Slight topic change John Farley, Harrier Test Pilot and writer produced a fascinating short artilce on Low and High gain pilots ie. some violently move the stick around all over the place whist others use minimal control force and input to get the same result.

As a pilot I make very small and light control inputs compared to some of my colleagues yet with a guitar I am very ham fisted?


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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 7:15 am 
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boswell wrote:
Slight topic change John Farley, Harrier Test Pilot and writer produced a fascinating short artilce on Low and High gain pilots ie. some violently move the stick around all over the place whist others use minimal control force and input to get the same result.
This is a concept in control engineering (including motor control which is why I know about it!). If you have a high gain feed back system you have to keep the delay time a short as possible otherwise you get wild oscillations-compensating wildly one way then the other. The human body is a high delay, low gain system so our reflexes make lots of sub-minimal corrections until the final goal is reached.

boswell wrote:
As a pilot I make very small and light control inputs compared to some of my colleagues yet with a guitar I am very ham fisted?
That's cos you're a kno*head.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:49 pm 
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I don't think written music can be any indication of this 10 year rule working. As far as I'm concerned there's two ingredients you need for writing music (unrestricted), exposure to a broad range of music and an imagination. A person with both of these but has no previous musical experiences (writing or playing) still has the potential to write anything equivalent to what's regarded as the best music out there or even better. Their consistent success in writing music comes down to their imagination and natural ability to feel out flow. You don't need to understand anything technical in order to write technical and/or great music.

I think the 10 year rule would be more valid in the mechanical and scientific space of music just like it would be with sports. To be competent and versatile on an instrument means you need to have a good understanding of the science of music (concepts and theories) and finely tuned motor skills (physical ability to play an instrument). To really internalize what all these concepts mean to you and experience many mechanical ways to play the instrument, taking the parts you like and throwing the rest away to inevitably carve yourself a unique musical persona I'd say 10 years is a fair assumption to be regarded as a champion in that field.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:47 am 
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guyver_dio wrote:
I don't think written music can be any indication of this 10 year rule working. As far as I'm concerned there's two ingredients you need for writing music (unrestricted), exposure to a broad range of music and an imagination.
I don't think the the '10 Year Hypothesis' and what you suggest are mutually exclusive. In fact ones practise has to be purposeful rather than blind noodling. It means not practising those same old tired 'boxes' but doing the difficult awkward things.

guyver_dio wrote:
I think the 10 year rule would be more valid in the mechanical and scientific space of music just like it would be with sports.
And classical musicians (or 'organic sequencers' as I call them). It has been shown to be the case for classical musicians but they're rarely inventive.

guyver_dio wrote:
To be competent and versatile on an instrument means you need to have a good understanding of the science of music (concepts and theories) and finely tuned motor skills (physical ability to play an instrument).
Again isn't that part of purposeful practise? I get the impression you think practise is just playing things on your guitar. Its not, its all theother things you've suggested and many more.



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:50 am 
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I think there is an oddity with music whereby the fledgling muscian may increase their dexterity on their instrument and increase their theoretical knowledge of music but their music later in their career suffers from a lack of flair, passion soul or call it what you will.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:57 am 
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Perhaps the 'flair' is the ability to identify what makes music 'good' and synthesizing that into something novel. Perhaps that comes from exposure to a wide range of music/plenty of purposeful practise etc.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:05 am 
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My post was separating the 2 main components of being a musician, writing and skills since I saw previous posts discussing artists written work and comparing them between the points along their career. I just wanted to point out comparing written work at two points in someones career is no indication of this 10 year theory (at least how it could be true in my mind). There's thousands of successful writers out there, the 'champions' they are choosing sounds like ones that have shown excelled technical abilities and knowledge in their field. The focus of the 10 year theory should be on that alone and not written work. Creating/writing successful music does not necessarily have any connection to purposeful practice or gaining meaningful knowledge (the point about classical players rarely inventing being a good example of that). Creating/writing music relies almost entirely on imagination (you need an idea before you can do anything). You can exercise your imagination to get more out of it, but it's still random, lucky and is basically unaffected by purposeful practice (infact I'd even say that the more theory you know the more harmful it can be to your imagination).


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