Learning the modes

Discuss playing styles and techniques, or share your own here.
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burnt out
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I am chilled out. Maybe all of you are the ones who need to get there.

I get sick of every time I type something on any guitar forums how somebody's got to make it a fucking argument when there is none there. I guess everyone on guitar forums are all just a bunch of braindead crack monkeys with giant dildos up their butt. Either that or they are all 5 years old and don't know any better than to act like that.

Again, stay away from crack.Fuckin' dickholes.
Desert_Runner
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It's not all child psyochotics, it's just people can't stand seeing misinformation and feel a insinctive urge to correct it.

May I quote an xkcd:
Image
It's much easier to be an asshole to words than to people.

btw, not everyone on guitar forums are braindead crack monekys with giant dildos up their butt. If they met in real life, they would probably get along a lot better.

Now please people, get back on topic.
bkeds
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I love how almost every topic on this site turns into a heated argument, just goes to show how passionate vai fans are.

Thanks for all the input. I've decided to look for a good teacher. I feel like there is so much information on the internet that unless I have a teacher keeping me on track I won't reach my Goals. I'm going to begin learning the major scale in all keys first. Does anyone know a site where i can get patterns that would cover the whole neck?
Svelt Pen
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burnt out wrote:I am chilled out. Maybe all of you are the ones who need to get there.

I get sick of every time I type something on any guitar forums how somebody's got to make it a fucking argument when there is none there. I guess everyone on guitar forums are all just a bunch of braindead crack monkeys with giant dildos up their butt. Either that or they are all 5 years old and don't know any better than to act like that.

Again, stay away from crack.Fuckin' dickholes.
Cursing up a storm and calling us a bunch of dickhole, braindead crack monkeys with giant dildos up our butts...Hmmmm, and WE"RE acting like 5 year olds here.. :lol: Grow up, kid. You're just making yourself look like an un-educated jackass... :roll:
dthodoris
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bkeds wrote:I love how almost every topic on this site turns into a heated argument, just goes to show how passionate vai fans are.

Thanks for all the input. I've decided to look for a good teacher. I feel like there is so much information on the internet that unless I have a teacher keeping me on track I won't reach my Goals. I'm going to begin learning the major scale in all keys first. Does anyone know a site where i can get patterns that would cover the whole neck?
A popular way to learn the major scale all over the neck is to relate scale shapes with chord shapes.Its a good way of visualizing the shapes.You can find the information here: http://www.cyberfret.com/scales/major-caged/index.php



@Svelt pen: the funny thing is that i was very polite in my first post!

@burnt out: I didnt mean to insult you in any way.You have every right to disagree.It seems you dont know how though....But i have to admit that i m still laughing with the "braindead crack monkeys with giant dildos up their butt" thing :lol:
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burnt out
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And that leads me to the next reason why I hate and want to kill all guitarists. They all always start arguments on the internet where there was no reason at all for an argument to start, and then they all band together like little politically correct nazis and try to pretend how mature they are because they didn't say any naughty words. Grow up jerk faces. Learn to treat others like you yourself want to be treated. Starting moronic arguments over NOTHING is gay. And then trying to band together like fascists and try to gang-claim the high ground just makes you the smelly poo poo from Satan's butthole you big dumb doo doo heads.

:twisted:

:lol: Bill Cosby: "big dumb doo doo heads"
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lydian2000
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burnt out wrote:...hate ... kill ....nazis .... jerk .... moronic ....gay.. ..fascists....smelly.....poo poo.... Satan's butthole.... big dumb doo doo heads.
.... :!:


now to get back on topic I think the best starting point is always to learn all the notes on the fretboard, by doing so you will soon notice that there are "octave" patterns and once you get familiarised with these octaves then the whole fretboard, the scales, the modes, the arpeggios sort of "light up"(at least it did for me).


:peace
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burnt out
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lydian2000 wrote:
burnt out wrote:...hate ... kill ....nazis .... jerk .... moronic ....gay.. ..fascists....smelly.....poo poo.... Satan's butthole.... big dumb doo doo heads.
.... :!:

You have no sense of humor. :shock:

now to get back on topic I think the best starting point is always to learn all the notes on the fretboard, by doing so you will soon notice that there are "octave" patterns and once you get familiarised with these octaves then the whole fretboard, the scales, the modes, the arpeggios sort of "light up"(at least it did for me).


:peace
Good point here though. :)

O_O ...kill...kill...kill...
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Moderator777
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burnt out wrote:And that leads me to the next reason why I hate and want to kill all guitarists. They all always start arguments on the internet where there was no reason at all for an argument to start, and then they all band together like little politically correct nazis and try to pretend how mature they are because they didn't say any naughty words. Grow up jerk faces. Learn to treat others like you yourself want to be treated. Starting moronic arguments over NOTHING is gay. And then trying to band together like fascists and try to gang-claim the high ground just makes you the smelly poo poo from Satan's butthole you big dumb doo doo heads.


Bill Cosby: "big dumb doo doo heads"
The next post that is not on topic will be deleted. Enough of the crap.

--------------
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euterpe
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This is the way that i think about modes, scales and fretboard knowledge it might help you guys, sorry about the length i just started gettin into it!

What really helped me with modes/and overall fretboard knowledge was learning not only scales etc.. but learning intervals. For example, say your holding a note and you hear the next note in your head that you want to play but your fingers dont know where go. By studying intervals and learning not just where all the notes are located on the guitar, but notice how the notes are arranged and how the repeat on the different sets of strings. This IS what makes the guitar unique, because it is really 6 completely different intruments in one. Other intruments like saxes etc have usually one and maybe 2 different ways to play a note, but on the guitar there are infinite possibility for fingerings, ideas, etc.. Take an E note for example on the guitar: ( i feel that tab is actually i great way to explain this )

e-------0-------------------------------------------------
b--------------5------------------------------------------
g---------------------9-----------------------------------
d----------------------------14--------------------------
a-----------------------------------17-------------------
E----------------------------------------24-------------All the same note!

But lets do some other things with just an E note:
Look at these different combanations of E's ( i'll only use things that are actually possible on the guitar )

e--------------------------------------------------------------------12---12-------
b--------------------------------------------------5----5------------------------
g------------------9-------------------------------------------9----9-------------
d------2----------------14----------------2-----2-----------------------14-----
a------------7------------------------------------------7-----7---------------------
E------0----0----0----0-----etc..------0-----------------------------------------etccc

You could do this with 2 notes,say an A-note with and E-note ontop and just learn any pattern of it on the fret board:
(its the same idea as the previous example except now this is with 2 notes, A and E, instead of copies of one note.)

its just a power chord mapped out on the fretboard:
e------------------0---------------------------------------------------------------
b-----------------------5----------5---------------------------------------------
g------------------2---2----9-------------------9---------------------------------
d------------2---------------7----7-----14-----------17-------------------------
A-----7----------------------------------12----12----12-----------------------------
E-----5-----5-----------------------------------------------------------------------



The reason for learning Intervals is because by knowing how notes are connected to eachother you can learn to make other concepts of your playing more elaborate. The reason of this post was to learn the modes which = scales and scales. The point is to take the interval ideas and apply them to scales, ( or even arpeggios, licks, ideas, etc.))


e--------------------------------------------------3-5-6-------------------------
b------------------------------------------3-5-6---------------------------------
g----------------------------------2-3-5------------------------------------------
d--------------------------2-3-5------------------------------------------------
A-----------------1-3-5-------------------------------------------------------------
E---------1-3-5--------------------------------------------------------------------- this would just be a 3 note perstring Fmaj scale



e------------------------------------------------------------------------12/13-15-17--------------------
b-------------------------------------------------------10/11-13-15-----------------------------------
g-----------------------------------------7/9-10-12--------------------------------------------------
d-----------------------------5/7-8-10----------------------------------------------------------------
A------------------3/5-7-8--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E-------1/3-5-6----------------------------------------------Fmaj again but this one is much different....4 notes perstring


e-------------------------------------------------------------------------------13/15-17-18/20-------------
b--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
g---------------------------------------------------------14/15-17-19/21-----------------------------------
d-----------------------------------10/12-14-15/17----------------------------------------------------------------
A------------------5/7-8-10/12----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E-----1/3-5-6/8--------------------------------------------------------------------- 5 notes! ( the string skip is just to show how far it can go)



I dont mean to ramble or anything, I am a teacher at a music store in my town, and many of my guitar students struggle with learning "modes" but they are really just struggling with the fretboard memorization of it. I would strongly encourage you to study the sounds of the modes away, and with the guitar. Doing this can be simple, just play a riff that you already know and understand what key its in and what mode it is. The part i was describing earlier was just the fretboard aspect of it, which i think is very important. I always see people stuck in certain pentatonic boxes, or 3 note per string or just stuck in something with their playing. And i think learning the fretboard aspect makes learning modes much more enjoyable, because with fretboard knowledge of intervals you can freely playing anything you want once you are completely familiar with the sound and theory being the modes. Its just connecting the guitar player and composer inside your head. And that is why i completely love listening to all types of music. it is amazing to see how people create music. Especially truly great musicians, like Steve Vai. I can see two steves in my head. The steve vai that is like a true bethoven, mozart etc of a composer. His personality, quirkyness is spoken through his notes and his chords. But he is a composer in a guitarists body. The guitar is an addictive instrument for many people. And it I feel so lucky to even be able to listen to people like steve vai play guitar. I am terribly sorry about this long post, i have not been able to post in months and ive been busy with school and recording music. If anyone is interested in this stuff send me a private message or maybe we could make another topic for discussion?

Hope this helps
Stephen Brown
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^
What do those examples have to do with the modes?

Target note choice E.

Root & 5th,

F Ionian.
guitarmanK1982
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The general steps:

learn what notes are used in music (e.g. 'C, C#/Db, D etc; in other words, the chromatic scale)

learn about intervals/ learn the major scale interval formula

work out the notes in every key

learn the chord structures (i.e. major/minor/diminished)

learn the chords in a key

learn lots of diatonic songs

start to work out some diatonic songs yourself

learn more songs

understand all major scales 'inside out' - know the notes to every major scale like the back of your hand

----THEN--- study modal harmony.


Modes are most often derived as alterations of the major scale (i.e. lydian = #4). You have to know basic diatonic major harmony first, and need to know the notes of all the scales in order to understand if a note is actually an alteration or not.




OK guys - i'm busy until December, so take it easy :) I'll pop in here every now and then and try my best to stir things up a little :) hahaha
drfoster
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heres how i remembered their order

I Don't Play Like Michael Angelo Lately

letters in caps are the same as the modes in order

ionian,dorian,phrygian,lydian,mixolydian,aolean,locrian.

then ya gotta learn what gives them their flavor.
ionian-major scale

dorian-minor scale with a raised,sharp (6)

etc
Roger
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drfoster wrote:heres how i remembered their order

I Don't Play Like Michael Angelo Lately
:mrgreen:
dthodoris
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guitarmanK1982 wrote:The general steps:

learn what notes are used in music (e.g. 'C, C#/Db, D etc; in other words, the chromatic scale)

learn about intervals/ learn the major scale interval formula

work out the notes in every key

learn the chord structures (i.e. major/minor/diminished)

learn the chords in a key

learn lots of diatonic songs

start to work out some diatonic songs yourself

learn more songs

understand all major scales 'inside out' - know the notes to every major scale like the back of your hand

----THEN--- study modal harmony.

THEN study modal harmony. It ll be the last thing before you die. (if you re still alive after all those years) :lol:
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