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 Post subject: And another...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:51 am 
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When preparing these sets I did not make any particular effort to see which mode could be considered the primary, as with the Major scale to its own modes. This was due to how I made sure that I had them all. So when assembling the 66 mode groups out of the 462 total sets of scales the least useful scales were at the front of the list. So I reversed the order of the groups. This, of course had little to do with how I named them, and I deleted the line numbers before presenting them here. Maybe not fair, but how useful is it to know that some scale is number 311 for example?

The breaking of strings is the beginning of wisdom...

Synthetic 14 - 1 1 2 3 2 1 2 - m2 m2 M2 m3 M2 m2 M2 - c c# d e g a a# c - C Db Ebb Fb G A Bb
s14 mode 2 - 1 2 3 2 1 2 1 - m2 M2 m3 M2 m2 M2 m2 - c c# d# f# g# a b c - C Db Eb F# G# A B
s14 mode 3 - 2 3 2 1 2 1 1 - M2 m3 M2 m2 M2 m2 m2 - c d f g g# a# b c - C D E# F## G# A# B
s14 mode 4 - 3 2 1 2 1 1 2 - m3 M2 m2 M2 m2 m2 M2 - c d# f f# g# a a# c - C D# E# F# G# A Bb
s14 mode 5 - 2 1 2 1 1 2 3 - M2 m2 M2 m2 m2 M2 m3 - c d d# f f# g a c - C D Eb F Gb Abb Bbb
s14 mode 6 - 1 2 1 1 2 3 2 - m2 M2 m2 m2 M2 m3 M2 - c c# d# e f g a# c - C Db Eb Fb Gbb Abb Bb
s14 mode 7 - 2 1 1 2 3 2 1 - M2 m2 m2 M2 m3 M2 m2 - c d d# e f# a b c - C D Eb Fb Gb A B


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 Post subject: quite a few to go
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:01 am 
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Again, these are not part of the 14 known mode sets I am aware of for 7 note scales. If there are interested parties I am also willing to post the complete set of 96 known 7 note scales I am aware of. I also have completed a list of pentatonic scales, but I have not gone out and tried to find identification for them. If I do decide to release them, it will be the readers job to determine if any of them have ever been used.

The breaking of strings is the beginning of wisdom...

Synthetic 13 - 1 1 2 3 1 2 2 - m2 m2 M2 m3 m2 M2 M2 - c c# d e g g# a# c - C Db ebb Fb G Ab Bb
s13 mode 2 - 1 2 3 1 2 2 1 - m2 M2 m3 m2 M2 M2 m2 - c c# d# f# g a b c - C Db Eb F# G A B
s13 mode 3 - 2 3 1 2 2 1 1 - M2 m3 m2 M2 M2 m2 m2 - c d f f# g# a# b c - C D E# F# G# A# B
s13 mode 4 - 3 1 2 2 1 1 2 - m3 m2 M2 M2 m2 m2 M2 - c d# e f# g# a a# c - C D# E F# G# A Bb
s13 mode 5 - 1 2 2 1 1 2 3 - m2 M2 M2 m2 m2 M2 m3 - c c# d# f f# g a c - C Db Eb F Gb Abb Bbb
s13 mode 6 - 2 2 1 1 2 3 1 - M2 M2 m2 m2 M2 m3 m2 - c d e f f# g# b c - C D E F Gb Ab B
s13 mode 7 - 2 1 1 2 3 1 2 - M2 m2 m2 M2 m3 m2 M2 - c d d# e f# a a# c - C D Eb Fb Gb A Bb


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:32 pm 
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Only mode 5 of this group behaves properly (i.e. has a 5th that is a 5th).

The breaking of strings is the beginning of wisdom...

Synthetic 12 - 1 1 2 2 3 1 2 - m2 m2 M2 M2 m3 m2 M2 - c c# d e f# a a# c - C Db Ebb Fb Gb A Bb
s12 mode 2 - 1 2 2 3 1 2 1 - m2 M2 M2 m3 m2 M2 m2 - c c# d# f g# a b c - C Db Eb F G# A B
s12 mode 3 - 2 2 3 1 2 1 1 - M2 M2 m3 m2 M2 m2 m2 - c d e g g# a# b c - C D E F## G# A# B
s12 mode 4 - 2 3 1 2 1 1 2 - M2 m3 m2 M2 m2 m2 M2 - c d f f# g# a a# c - C D E# F# G# A Bb
s12 mode 5 - 3 1 2 1 1 2 2 - m3 m2 M2 m2 m2 M2 M2 - c d# e f# g g# a# c - C D# E F# G Ab Bb
s12 mode 6 - 1 2 1 1 2 2 3 - m2 M2 m2 m2 M2 M2 m3 - c c# d# e f g a c - C Db Eb Fb Gbb Abb Bbb
s12 mode 7 - 2 1 1 2 2 3 1 - M2 m2 m2 M2 M2 m3 m2 - c d d# e f# g# b c - C D Eb Fb Gb Ab B


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:28 am 
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Still nothing too strange here. Just wait...

The breaking of strings is the beginning of wisdom...

Synthetic 11 - 1 1 2 2 1 3 2 - m2 m2 M2 M2 m2 m3 M2 - c c# d e f# g a# c - C db Ebb Fb Gb Abb Bb
s11 mode 2 - 1 2 2 1 3 2 1 - m2 M2 M2 m2 m3 M2 m2 - c c# d# f f# a b c - C Db Eb F Gb A B
s11 mode 3 - 2 2 1 3 2 1 1 - M2 M2 m2 m3 M2 m2 m2 - c d e f g# a# b c - C D E F G# A# B
s11 mode 4 - 2 1 3 2 1 1 2 - M2 m2 m3 M2 m2 m2 M2 - c d d# f# g# a a# c - C D Eb F# G# A Bb
s11 mode 5 - 1 3 2 1 1 2 2 - m2 m3 M2 m2 m2 M2 M2 - c c# e f# g g# a# c - C Db E F# G Ab Bb
s11 mode 6 - 3 2 1 1 2 2 1 - m3 M2 m2 m2 M2 M2 m2 - c d# f f# g a b c - C D# E# F# G A B
s11 mode 7 - 2 1 1 2 2 1 3 - M2 m2 m2 M2 M2 m2 m3 - c d d# e f# g# a c - C D Eb Fb Gb Ab Bbb


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:33 am 
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And here we are: a triple flat in mode 1. Not that this means that the mode will be useful - but pretend that mode 5 or 6 is the main one and examine how the modes fit together from there. More to follow soon.

The breaking of strings is the beginning of wisdom...

Synthetic 21 - 1 1 2 2 1 1 4 - m2 m2 M2 M2 m2 m2 M3 - c c# d e f# g g# c - C Db Ebb Fb Gb Abb Bbbb
s21 mode 2 - 1 2 2 1 1 4 1 - m2 M2 M2 m2 m2 M3 m2 - c c# d# f f# g b c - C Db Eb F Gb Abb B
s21 mode 3 - 2 2 1 1 4 1 1 - M2 M2 m2 m2 M3 m2 m2 - c d e f f# a# b c - C D E F Gb A# B
s21 mode 4 - 2 1 1 4 1 1 2 - M2 m2 m2 M3 m2 m2 M2 - c d d# e g# a a# c - C D Eb Fb G# A Bb
s21 mode 5 - 1 1 4 1 1 2 2 - m2 m2 M3 m2 m2 M2 M2 - c c# d f# g g# a# c - C Db Ebb F# G Ab Bb
s21 mode 6 - 1 4 1 1 2 2 1 - m2 M3 m2 m2 M2 M2 m2 - c c# f f# g a b c - C Db E# F# G A B
s21 mode 7 - 4 1 1 2 2 1 1 - M3 m2 m2 M2 M2 m2 m2 - c e f f# g# a# b c - C D## E# F# G# A# B


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:46 am 
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One more question-I see you are using numbers for names of scales?
Where did those numbers come from(scale 12,21,etc) and how many of them are they?
Why dont you post them in right numbering order?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:01 am 
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Because these are synthetic scales, I had no names for them. As for the "correct order" thus far there is none. I called the one you mentioned synthetic 21 because it has no other name as far as I am aware. "s21 mode 2" is not so much a name as a description: the second mode of synthetic scale 21. The actual names for these scales is far less educational: Synthetic Scale 21 is actually referred to in my document as Type 72.

This is a private project where I decided to find out what every scale was and if there was something special about the scales musicians were currently using as opposed to all of the rest of them. So I used math to derive every possible scale, assigned the names from books for every scale that already exists, and slapped something on all of the rest in order to keep track of them. If you want to come up with more imaginative names for these, be my guest.

As for not posting them in the correct order, in order to understand what was happening, I sorted them into "mode groups". The original numbering did absolutely nothing for clarifying what any scale was or what other scales it was related to. If you really want to know how I derived these I can post that information, but it will be long and boring and you won't learn much about the scales themselves.

Finally, there are 462 possible 7 note scales. When I sort them into mode groups, there are 66 groups of 7 scales. 14 of these groups are in current use according to the theory books I have read (98 scales). There are 52 groups remaining (364 synthetic scales) and I have posted a fair number of them. There is no guarantee that any of them are useful in music. That wasn't the point: the minute I declare some scale impossible to use, some clever musician will find a way to do so. So I am making them available and leaving the quest to use them to anyone who wants to take it up.

The breaking of scales is the beginning of wisdom...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:28 am 
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I have some difficulty regarding any of the scales in this set as being directly useful: so it is probably a prime candidate for exploration. Especially to one of my big theoretical questions: does a double flatted fifth lose its function in scales such as the first mode here? While these scales are largely a theoretical exercise, the ear does hold sway: is a fifth always a fifth, even when the scale puts it is a different place? Is there a general rule on this kind of behavior? I haven't seen it yet and I am fairly well read. Anyone?

The breaking of strings is the beginning of wisdom...

Synthetic 22 - 1 1 2 1 4 1 2 - m2 m2 M2 m2 M3 m2 M2 - c c# d e f a a# c - C Db Ebb fb Gbb A Bb
s22 mode 2 - 1 2 1 4 1 2 1 - m2 M2 m2 M3 m2 M2 m2 - c c# d# e g# a b c - C Db Eb Fb G# A B
s22 mode 3 - 2 1 4 1 2 1 1 - M2 m2 M3 m2 M2 m2 m2 - c d d# g g# a# b c - C D Eb F## G# A# B
s22 mode 4 - 1 4 1 2 1 1 2 - m2 M3 m2 M2 m2 m2 M2 - c c# f f# g# a a# c - C Db E# F# G# A Bb
s22 mode 5 - 4 1 2 1 1 2 1 - M3 m2 M2 m2 m2 M2 m2 - c e f g g# a b c - C D## E# F## G# A B
s22 mode 6 - 1 2 1 1 2 1 4 - m2 M2 m2 m2 M2 m2 M3 - c c# d# e f g g# c - C Db Eb Fb Gbb Abb Bbbb
s22 mode 7 - 2 1 1 2 1 4 1 - M2 m2 m2 M2 m2 M3 m2 - c d d# e f# g b c - C D Eb Fb Gb Abb B


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 Post subject: Another set here
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:25 pm 
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While mode 2 could be interpreted as the "real" scale I don't work like that. All I am doing is presenting related sets of scales. If it is here it only means I haven't seen it in a book or in sheet music. Maybe later I will post the 98 scales I have been able to account for.

The breaking of strings is the beginning of wisdom...

Synthetic 10 - 1 1 2 1 3 2 2 - m2 m2 M2 m2 m3 M2 M2 - c c# d e f g# a# c - C Db Ebb Fb Gbb Ab Bb
S10 mode 2 - 1 2 1 3 2 2 1 - m2 M2 m2 m3 M2 M2 m2 - c c# d# e g a b c - C Db Eb Fb G A B
S10 mode 3 - 2 1 3 2 2 1 1 - M2 m2 m3 M2 M2 m2 m2 - c d d# f# g# a# b c - C D Eb F# G# A# B
S10 mode 4 - 1 3 2 2 1 1 2 - m2 m3 M2 M2 m2 m2 M2 - c c# e f# g# a a# c - C Db E F# G# A Bb
S10 mode 5 - 3 2 2 1 1 2 1 - m3 M2 M2 m2 m2 M2 m2 - c d# f g g# a b c - C D# E# F## G# A B
S10 mode 6 - 2 2 1 1 2 1 3 - M2 M2 m2 m2 M2 m2 m3 - c d e f f# g# a c - C D E F Gb Ab Bbb
S10 mode 7 - 2 1 1 2 1 3 2 - M2 m2 m2 M2 m2 m3 M2 - c d d# e f# g a# c - C D Eb Fb Gb Abb Bb


Last edited by Stringbreaker on Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:12 pm 
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I'm sorry,
I don't seem understand this type of system & it's starting to look like binary machine code to me.

Arr holdy on. :lol:

How many scales does one need?


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 Post subject: Not binary
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:26 pm 
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Maybe my sequencing is the confusing part:

1 1 2 1 3 2 2 is a list of the set of half steps used to achieve the octave.
m2 m2 M2 m2 m3 M2 M2 is the same thing where m2 is a minor second, M2 is a Major 2nd, m3 is a minor 3rd, M3 is a major 3rd, P4 is a perfect fourth and so on.

So for this example 1 = c to c#, 1 = c# to d, 2 = d to e, 1 = e to f, 3 = f to g#, 2 = g# to a#, and 2 = a# to c. This gives the scale "c c# d e f g# a# c" which I normalized to C Db Ebb Fb Gbb Ab Bb not printing the final C. The numbers approach allows me to choose any note for the root pitch and derive the same scale. I just list them as C to save space. Try sounding them out skipping frets to get the sound: as a longtime guitarist, I find that corresponding the interval to a number I can associate with "the number of frets to jump" helps me.

The breaking of strings is the beginning of wisdom...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:35 pm 
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Thanks.

Sound's like you have this down really well.

TTsTTTs. That will do me. :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:29 pm 
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Stringbreaker wrote:
Because these are synthetic scales, I had no names for them. As for the "correct order" thus far there is none. I called the one you mentioned synthetic 21 because it has no other name as far as I am aware. "s21 mode 2" is not so much a name as a description: the second mode of synthetic scale 21. The actual names for these scales is far less educational: Synthetic Scale 21 is actually referred to in my document as Type 72.


I am asking cause I decided to cataloge them all and since number aren`t saying much to me,I am looking for the best system to write them down, so when I am looking for something I know where to look but it seems I will have to write them down in groups based on "feeling" each scale awakes :)
And interesting thing is that those "feelings" are based on certain intervals in scales so I thought that may the best way

I already did similar thing with chords

I write down a chord,chart and notes and certain words :)

i.e. f# c# e g# b e or 242100 from low E to high E awakes Paris in autumn,cold coffe,street made of stone,red dress etc etc


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:08 pm 
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As for the best system to write them all down, I chose a numeric system because when I decided to catalog all of the scales I wanted to make sure I didn't miss any.

I do have a list I could send you of all 462 heptatonic (7 note) scales, but when I was preparing them for readability, I sorted them into modal groups.

Because of the nature of the sort I used, the least useful scales showed up first. So for my own use I reversed the order. Essentially, in general the more homogenized scales are the ones other musicians have decided to use. William Zeigler used to have a site called www.allthescales.com but it has fallen out of use (domain available).

Now, I have also cataloged all the pentatonics but I haven't managed the research necessary to provide names for all of them. I only have so much owl time to spend. There are 330 of them - not coincidentally the same number of 5 note chords - I have a sort of these as well.

I am not sure a naming system based on subjective feelings will be useful in the long term, but then I don't have a better option to give you, and calling some scale "Type 361" doesn't seem all that much better.

Similarly, one of my projects was to make a list of every possible alternate tuning for the 6 string guitar. This is available in the Elderly Instruments catalog as a disk with what I believe to be the biggest pdf document available in fine print at 21,456 pages long. I think no one will ever print out the monster. I chose alphabetical order for that.

Send me your email and I will send you a small pdf with all 462 scales. I added the book names I found for the 14 main groups and added arbitrary names for all the rest. If you want to rename them, go ahead: I can't claim to own them all, and I'd feel like a fool trying. If you're sufficiently computer literate I could send you a write up of how I generated them all, but I would relegate that to alternatives to sleeping pills.

The breaking of strings is the beginning of wisdom...


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 Post subject: Still another set
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:48 am 
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Mild not wild. Stay tuned for stranger things.

The breaking of strings is the beginning of wisdom...

Synthetic 9 - 1 1 2 1 3 1 3 - m2 m2 M2 m2 m3 m2 m3 - c c# d e f g# a c - C Db Ebb Fb Gbb Ab Bbb
S9 mode 2 - 1 2 1 3 1 3 1 - m2 M2 m2 m3 m2 m3 m2 - c c# d# e g g# b c - C Db Eb Fb G Ab B
S9 mode 3 - 2 1 3 1 3 1 1 - M2 m2 m3 m2 m3 m2 m2 - c d d# f# g a# b c - C D Eb F# G A# B
S9 mode 4 - 1 3 1 3 1 1 2 - m2 m3 m2 m3 m2 m2 M2 - c c# e f g# a a# c - C Db E F G# A Bb
S9 mode 5 - 3 1 3 1 1 2 1 - m3 m2 m3 m2 m2 M2 m2 - c d# e g g# a b c - C D# E F## G# A B
S9 mode 6 - 1 3 1 1 2 1 3 - m2 m3 m2 m2 M2 m2 m3 - c c# e f f# g# a c - C Db E F Gb Ab Bbb
S9 mode 7 - 3 1 1 2 1 3 1 - m3 m2 m2 M2 m2 m3 m2 - c d# e f g g# b c - C D# E F G Ab B


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