pinch harmonic

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Trononguitar
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#16 Post by Trononguitar » Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:57 pm

shredlord wrote:to get the correct terms:


-if you hit the open string and you produce a harmonic by putting your finger over the frets (like 7th, 5th, 4th, 3.2nd, 3rd etc.) it's called:

natural harmonic

-if you produce a harmonic by hitting the string both with your pick and the edge of your thumb, it's called:

pinch harmonic

-if you hold down, for example, a-string, 5th fret, and then tap the octave, like 17th fret (quick, by just hitting it shortly), it's called:

tap harmonic

-if you do the thing with you index touching the string and plucking it at the same time, like eric johnson does, it's called:

harp harmonic



kay, just wanted to mention that.
definetaly thank shredlord for clearing that up ,the posts were getting confused in the terminology. shredlords are the absolute correct definitions with the correct and simple descriptions of how they are achived.(aside from he means the index finger is on your picking hand with the harp harmonic), and please note i didnt respond to be a dick to any one here , just want to set it straight and edgimakate. :wink:...m-kay

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#17 Post by jemshredder1283 » Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:15 pm

wow, thanks for all the help guys. ill definately try this stuff out later!

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#18 Post by Tiger » Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:40 pm

I would just like to add that there's no way to get around the mathematical precision of where the harmonics occur. Be it in a conscious level (in a more cientific approach) or in a subconscious level (in a rather empirical perspective) the mathematics and physics of the process are inescapable. Some pickups, due to their configuration, are more prone to produce harmonics than others. It also helps to use new strings. As they get dirty and oxidated they don't vibrate so freely and get less and less harmonic thus deteriorating the quality of the harmonics.

If you want to play harp or tap harmonics in the likes of Eric Johnson or Steve Morse, or pinch harmonics in the likes of Randy Rhoads or Diamond Darrel, you should spend some time checking out where the harmonics occur. That's what they did to get there. :)

BTW, Steve Vai is pretty proficient at any of those types of harmonics mentioned so there's nothing wrong with using a Jem. Just spend some time figuring out where to pinch the string... the positions change for every different fret. Enjoy :)

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#19 Post by shredlord » Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:01 am

also a master of harmonics:

matthias IA eklundh (freak kitchen/mr. libido/solo)

just listen to his version of "smoke on the water", he plays the vocals almost entirely with harmonics :D

another cool way of doing harmonics:

bend down your vibrato, do the natural-harmonic-thing (lay your finger on f.e. 5th fret) and release it quickly. sounds cool, an example is on freak kitchen's "hateful little people" (album: move).

if you wanna make some cool natural harmonic stuff, check out joe satriani's song "speed of light". for his solo, he tuned another guitar in a certain way, so he could play a melody with the harmonics.

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#20 Post by Zebula77 » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:21 pm

beyondthenotes712 wrote:
Zebula77 wrote:I've got a technique of doing pinch harmonics that is similar to what Eric Johnson does. I hold the pick between my thumb and middle finger (which is actually how I hold it anyways. Kinda like Eddie Van Halen) and I place my index finger right over where the harmonic is and kinda 'pluck' it. I find I get more accurate and clean sounding harmonics that way.
This is not necessarily a "pinch" harmonic, but it is one of the best ways to comand harmonics from your guitar. It is definitely much cleaner, and if you practice it enough you can perform little arppegiated flurries of harmonics. Another technique is tap harmonics, which involves fretting a note and then tapping the harmonic lightly with your right hand. You can even do this for whole chords! Harmonics are a very unique thing about guitar and there are a myriad of ways to produce them, both conventional and unconventional (e.g. using your tongue :D), so experiment and have fun!
Yeah, you're right, that isn't a pinch harmonic, heh. But it's an interesting alternative.

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#21 Post by shredlord » Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:48 am

if you want a perfect example of those "harp harmonics" done with your index, check out eric johnson's record "venus isle", on the song "SRV" at 2:08, hed does it in perfection. it sounds even better on the version he does live with g3, as to be seen on the first g3-dvd.

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#22 Post by Trononguitar » Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:25 am

http://www.youtube.com/w/Paganini---Cap ... cal%20girl

at about 1 min.
here is another perfect example and execution of a harp harmonic, except its on a classical guitar. which requires much better execution for it then an electric thru an amp (also note she does it while playing the bass notes also)

there has been a some electric versions of this song also. by both jason becker and michael "fathe"?
i have the electric guitar music for it from g.f.t.p.m. mag from about 89 or so. very difficult piece on any insturment.

this girl is absoloutly fabulous. a true musician, better then any "look at this guy " vid that i saw on this site, I.M.O.
her hand isnt even big enough to form a full barre chord it seems dont it? note shes playing on a true classical guitar that has a traditionaly wider fretboard.

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#23 Post by shredlord » Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:57 am

very very nice picking technique she's got. especially those multi-fingered arpeggios are fabulous.
cool thing, playing the harp harmonics and bass notes at same time, just tried it on my cheap concert, sounds pretty cool.

but there's one thing... you know, the passion, something that a lot of classical players lack of. there is some kind of "feeling" but it's to perfect to convince me. she's definitely an astounding player, she'd kick my ass a thousand times, but i miss some individual note. that's very often among classical players. they play, but they do not smile. they do not feel the music, like a lot of, for example, rock-players with a high profession do.

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#24 Post by MR4Y » Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:42 am

there's other kind of harmonic that Edu Ardanuy of Dr. Sin, Steve Vai and Satch uses, called different harmonic. Is that harmonic that you pull both B and E(high) strings out of the fretboard towards the floor.

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#25 Post by shredlord » Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:51 am

yeah, satriani does that in one of the new g3-jams at the "g3 - live at tokyo"-dvd. sounds very cool. he pulls them of the fretboard :D

but is it actually a harmonic? i always thought of it as some kind of weird sound. how is it produced, physically, anyway?

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#26 Post by Trononguitar » Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:53 am

QUOTE BY SHREDMASTER{{, but there's one thing... you know, the passion, something that a lot of classical players lack of. there is some kind of "feeling" but it's to perfect to convince me. she's definitely an astounding player, she'd kick my ass a thousand times, but i miss some individual note. that's very often among classical players. they play, but they do not smile. they do not feel the music, like a lot of, for example, rock-players with a high profession do. }]]


SHRED,
i kinda see what you mean about the passionate performance.
the song definetaly has inherit passion...just not written into every passage.
also i dont think the arrangement alows for much extra performance enhanced passion on guitar tho.
just the difficulty in performing this both the bass and lead lines for the piece on one instruments is incredible.
the original version lead is played on a violin. and has a simple rythym guitar accompaniment ...(i think).

altho if she jumped around and made faces and still played the same way...id be impressed wouldnt you..lol
but i think it wouldnt be appropriate in this case

i think classical musicians are some of the most passionate performers acctualy, ever watch a piano or violin or the conductor llive .. its all over there faces what the emotion is they are playing. (ive seen many performers actually cry during a piece)

same as "high pro" johnny rockstar doin chuck berry unison bends with a wha pedal, a big stupid look on his mug and a armadillo in his trousers.

and on a dark side note, think about it ....................
shes a young girl from china (dont girls get the sh**ty end over there?)
she was probably beat with a board from age 2 to learn to play that well also.(j.k...but possible)..
and in some Asian cultures smiling and emotional expression in women are severely frowned upon.


oh and tha pull the strings off the neck thing mr4y describes,aside from the name of it (ive personaly never heard it called that), i dont think falls under an actual harmonic category , its more a trick then a technique cause you dont have much control over it other then the note the string makes when it hits on either the highest obstucting fret or the pick up. it produces a much higher then standard note is about all, not a harmonic overtone. if you did that trick and then got a harmonic out of it thru any one of the 4 techniques described here so far or thru gain feedback it would be that kind of harmonic. IMO>
m-kay :D. keep up the fight ,and tell em tron sent ya! :guitar

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#27 Post by MR4Y » Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:36 am

I know a guy that mades an harmonic like this way, he slides on the beginning of the neck then hit the strin whne pull time is coming, and it produces a note one octave above or two, assuming that an harmonic is an overtone note two or three octaves higher

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#28 Post by Trononguitar » Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:36 pm

MR4Y wrote:I know a guy that mades an harmonic like this way, he slides on the beginning of the neck then hit the strin whne pull time is coming, and it produces a note one octave above or two, assuming that an harmonic is an overtone note two or three octaves higher
im not trying to discredit your claims but they dont add up to me.

the only thing that could do what you describe is a pinch harmonic on the pulled note(s), in which case its just pinch harmonic. the fact that the string is off the fretboard and being freted off the pickup or somthing at the time is irelavent, its how the harmonic is accieved...in this case ....pinch harmonic.....cant tap it...cant harp it, not a natural of course.

i do a similar single string pull off the neck thing sometimes, with a cool effect resulting from it but it aint nothing but a higher un fretted note in my case.

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#29 Post by Gastric Sumo » Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:21 am

Trononguitar wrote:QUOTE BY SHREDMASTER{{, but there's one thing... you know, the passion, something that a lot of classical players lack of. there is some kind of "feeling" but it's to perfect to convince me. she's definitely an astounding player, she'd kick my ass a thousand times, but i miss some individual note. that's very often among classical players. they play, but they do not smile. they do not feel the music, like a lot of, for example, rock-players with a high profession do. }]]


SHRED,
i kinda see what you mean about the passionate performance.
the song definetaly has inherit passion...just not written into every passage.
also i dont think the arrangement alows for much extra performance enhanced passion on guitar tho.
just the difficulty in performing this both the bass and lead lines for the piece on one instruments is incredible.
the original version lead is played on a violin. and has a simple rythym guitar accompaniment ...(i think).

altho if she jumped around and made faces and still played the same way...id be impressed wouldnt you..lol
but i think it wouldnt be appropriate in this case

i think classical musicians are some of the most passionate performers acctualy, ever watch a piano or violin or the conductor llive .. its all over there faces what the emotion is they are playing. (ive seen many performers actually cry during a piece)

same as "high pro" johnny rockstar doin chuck berry unison bends with a wha pedal, a big stupid look on his mug and a armadillo in his trousers.

and on a dark side note, think about it ....................
shes a young girl from china (dont girls get the sh**ty end over there?)
she was probably beat with a board from age 2 to learn to play that well also.(j.k...but possible)..
and in some Asian cultures smiling and emotional expression in women are severely frowned upon.


oh and tha pull the strings off the neck thing mr4y describes,aside from the name of it (ive personaly never heard it called that), i dont think falls under an actual harmonic category , its more a trick then a technique cause you dont have much control over it other then the note the string makes when it hits on either the highest obstucting fret or the pick up. it produces a much higher then standard note is about all, not a harmonic overtone. if you did that trick and then got a harmonic out of it thru any one of the 4 techniques described here so far or thru gain feedback it would be that kind of harmonic. IMO>
m-kay :D. keep up the fight ,and tell em tron sent ya! :guitar
I read somewhere that China's population is getting so huge that they can only have like 2 children. Most want boys, because they are more productive to society. And when it's a girl, sometimes they just walk out into the woods and leave the baby by a tree. I guess this girl is really special! (if I'm wrong please correct me)

The US population in 1999(according to my geography book if I remember correctly) was about 275,000,000 people. China was like 1,250,000,000. Just under a billion more people!!!! Wholly crap! Pakistan and India both have individually as many people as the US with a predominately young population in a much smaller space!

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#30 Post by Trononguitar » Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:29 am

not to get off topic again but yes sumo, china was screwed up for awhile there, nowadays i dont know,times have changed .... as late as the seventies or eighties they would kill girls unwanted at birth, there was law against having more then 2 kids, so they wanted boys cause they could work harder to provide for the family and procreate the family bloodline.there is like almost 2 billion people there(last time i heard.)...man...and its a communist state so there is a real high percent poverty rate.

(i didnt look any of this crap up so feel free to correct me and my statistics if it matters to you) :roll: dont want to missinform or offend.

like i said nowadays things are different , im sure them old laws are probaly not still enforced. thank goodness for western influence and democracy. i love chinese food.....mmmm......the city chiken is great. m-kay

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