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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:35 am
by boswell
Big Bad Bill wrote:For a musician to suggest "vai wouldnt know phrasing, feel or emotion if it slapped him on the arse. he reckons he cant play blues at all and reckons that all he does is play a million notes per second" shows his/her ignorance and the fact they haven't listened to Steve's music at any depth.
I let Ains know how ignorant he is later! :wink:

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:08 am
by Big Bad Bill
boswell wrote:I let Ains know how ignorant he is later! :wink:
He wouldn't listen to you-you don't know as much about music as he does so you can't possibly appreciate it!

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:37 pm
by notavirtuoso
I think Steve has the ability to dismiss the "no feel" argument for even a casual listener. My mother was no fan of guitar virtuoso type music, but she was even moved by Warm Regards. She didn't understand why I liked instrumental stuff so much until she heard that song. She didn't become a fan or anything, but she got it. She was able to understand the statement of emotion that Steve was putting out without words or visuals. That to me is powerful.

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:40 am
by Big Bad Bill
I can see exactly what you mean notavirtuoso-'Warm Regards' is a lovely piece of emotional music. I can only think its the speedy playing that puts people off for some reason.

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:35 am
by Desert_Runner
I showed my Dad Gentle Ways, which he loves, however he doesn't get The Audience is Listening. To anyone that says Vai has no feel, there is a simple answer - get them the 7th song CD!

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:58 am
by boswell
Big Bad Bill wrote:I can only think its the speedy playing that puts people off for some reason.
I think many people who don't get on with instrumental music somehow don't hear what they want......"the tune" "something to whistle or hum" which they seem able to only grasp when the melody is sung. They must somehow see the instruments as just "backing" to the vocals in the same way many people don't understand Drum and Bass, Dance etc. "cos there's no tune".

Re:

Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:02 am
by Big Bad Bill
boswell wrote:I think many people who don't get on with instrumental music somehow don't hear what they want......"the tune" "something to whistle or hum" which they seem able to only grasp when the melody is sung. They must somehow see the instruments as just "backing" to the vocals in the same way many people don't understand Drum and Bass, Dance etc. "cos there's no tune".
I think you've knocked the nail on the head there, boswell. Its always about the vocal these days and although Steve's music does have very strong, vocal-like melody, people want lyrics (I've even noted that a few posters in this board are obsessed with hearing the lyrics Steve has said he assigns to his music when composing-but that could just be curiosity). The lack of a singable melody plagues the fast passages of classical music, but it was always suggested to me that one should listen and appreciate the overall 'contour' of such a passage or solo and this is exactly what most Vai fans much do.

Re: Re:

Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:36 am
by boswell
Big Bad Bill wrote:Its always about the vocal these days and although Steve's music does have very strong, vocal-like melody, people want lyrics (I've even noted that a few posters in this board are obsessed with hearing the lyrics Steve has said he assigns to his music when composing-but that could just be curiosity). The lack of a singable melody plagues the fast passages of classical music, but it was always suggested to me that one should listen and appreciate the overall 'contour' of such a passage or solo and this is exactly what most Vai fans much do.
Thing is modern (popular) song writing even though it is very vocals orientated has less melody to it than in years gone by and has developed into a more rhythmic thing, brought about no doubt by the popularity of Rap and R&B.

There is also a certain amount of intellect (musical or otherwise) required to appreciate instrumental music and unfortunately a huge chunk of the population haven't progressed beyond the rhythmic nursery rhyme level of melody.

Re:

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:53 am
by Bryceybhoy
Desert_Runner wrote:I showed my Dad Gentle Ways, which he loves, however he doesn't get The Audience is Listening. To anyone that says Vai has no feel, there is a simple answer - get them the 7th song CD!
I disagree. I don't think you necessarily have to play a 'ballad' for people to see that Steve has feel in his music. That would mean that Megadeth could quite easily be accused of having no feel.

Every single song on ALS for example is covered in feel.

You feelin' this?
:guitar

Re: Re:

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:19 am
by Big Bad Bill
Bryceybhoy wrote: I don't think you necessarily have to play a 'ballad' for people to see that Steve has feel in his music. That would mean that Megadeth could quite easily be accused of having no feel.
I think that's a very good point and it highlights what the majority of people consider 'feel' to be i.e. slow tempo tune, picking a note, bending it up, adding a bit of tasteful vibrato and making a funny face! I suppose many people consider 'feeling' to mean a joyous, awe-filled or a melancholias sensation. But what about the majestic aggression of 'Bull Whip'? Or the frenetic energy of 'Kill the Guy with the Ball' and 'Answers' ? Isn't that feel/emotion?

Re: Vai has no feel

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:35 am
by Desert_Runner
Well, everything's got feel until you just start playing notes for the sake of notes. If it makes you feel anything except "these guys make me sick because of their constant note wankage" then it's got feel.
Big Bad Bill wrote:But what about the majestic aggression of 'Bull Whip'? Or the frenetic energy of 'Kill the Guy with the Ball' and 'Answers' ? Isn't that feel/emotion?
Yes. It's just that the "peace and love and good happiness stuff" side of feel is a lot more well publicised than raw angry energy. Myself, I like both, but of course they won't affect you in a similar way. I'd say it was a preference thing.

Re: Vai has no feel

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:32 am
by musicslave
A few years ago, I saw Steve on a David Letterman prime time special. ( I think it was the Whitesnake days) When they came back from the commercial break, his Vainess was soloing. When he was done the crowd erupted into a LOUD round of applause. My point? If Steve didn't play with any feel or emotion, he would not have connected with the audience. (The Audience Was.....Listening!! lol)

Re: Vai has no feel

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:46 pm
by Big Bad Bill
musicslave wrote:A few years ago, I saw Steve on a David Letterman prime time special. ( I think it was the Whitesnake days) When they came back from the commercial break, his Vainess was soloing. When he was done the crowd erupted into a LOUD round of applause. My point? If Steve didn't play with any feel or emotion, he would not have connected with the audience. (The Audience Was.....Listening!! lol)
I would suggest they were simply amazed by his abilities and applauding his virtuosity. I think to really appreciate Steve's music takes a effort and a bit of knowledge. Sure enough, most people can appreciate 'The Audience is Listening'-its a cool boogie, but could you say the same for 'Fire Garden Suite'?

Re: Vai has no feel

Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:39 am
by sunai
Big Bad Bill wrote:
musicslave wrote:A few years ago, I saw Steve on a David Letterman prime time special. ( I think it was the Whitesnake days) When they came back from the commercial break, his Vainess was soloing. When he was done the crowd erupted into a LOUD round of applause. My point? If Steve didn't play with any feel or emotion, he would not have connected with the audience. (The Audience Was.....Listening!! lol)
I would suggest they were simply amazed by his abilities and applauding his virtuosity. I think to really appreciate Steve's music takes a effort and a bit of knowledge. Sure enough, most people can appreciate 'The Audience is Listening'-its a cool boogie, but could you say the same for 'Fire Garden Suite'?
if you're saying its not the same for the fire garden suite, i agree with you..
Of all my friends that i tried on, none of them wanted to listen to it, mainly because it was 10 mins long, plus, they couldn't listen past Bull whip, they just find the song irritating....I don't get that one bit :( :(

Re: Vai has no feel

Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:07 am
by Big Bad Bill
sunai0804 wrote:if you're saying its not the same for the fire garden suite, i agree with you..
Of all my friends that i tried on, none of them wanted to listen to it, mainly because it was 10 mins long, plus, they couldn't listen past Bull whip, they just find the song irritating....I don't get that one bit :( :(
I can understand their reaction. Its a challenging piece compared to Aerosmith, Trivium, Dragonforce, Killers, Razorlight et al. You have to listen to it a few times..and I mean active listening rather than letting it wash over you as most people allow popular music to wash over them. But the rewards are many. Its the 'fine wine' of music compared to the popular Pepsi cola!