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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:32 am 
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RAI wrote:
Yes he does, and I believe he claims that it was something he wasn't born with, but actually practiced until he got it.......
:(
Wish I could do that.

to the extent of my knowledge, that's actually not true (i don't know if you're going to like hearing this next bit...). supposedly everyone's born with it, but most people lose it due to lack of use.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:02 am 
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I think that's true actually since some people have "re-gained" their sense of pitch through hypno-therapy :o


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 5:29 pm 
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Yeh its like every1 is really flesably when there young but since we dont strect ect from 5 till 20 lol we lose it well most. But it does'nt explain people who start music at 14 and have perfect pitch


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 8:33 am 
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ultrazone_seeker wrote:
RAI wrote:
Yes he does, and I believe he claims that it was something he wasn't born with, but actually practiced until he got it.......
:(
Wish I could do that.

to the extent of my knowledge, that's actually not true (i don't know if you're going to like hearing this next bit...). supposedly everyone's born with it, but most people lose it due to lack of use.

My teacher told me that his instructor said that children are born with it and that if they begin to learn to play music at a young age they may keep it. But perfect pitch isn't the blessing people believe it is. You hear everything and some say that people with perfect pitch have trouble learning relative pitch which can be alot more useful. the only real diference between Relative pitch and perfect pitch is people with perfect pitch can recognize pitches without a referance point while realitive pitch requires an established referance point. Actualy to be able to recognize a perfect A and only that note would be alot beter than having full on perfect pitch.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:21 pm 
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The Prez wrote:
|-LoX-| wrote:
I know this is off-topic...
But I never heard anything about Mozart being deaf. And after a quick search in Google, I still can't find anything on the subject.

Beethoven, on the other hand...

I'm not accusing you of lying, but as I said, I've never heard about this before.


There is the possibility of him mixing up Mozart and Beethoven.


O have no idea what what people have talked about in the four pages in this post but i did a paper about this a while ago. Beethoven didnt have perfect pitch. 2 reasons, his sketch books are really full a master of pitch knows what something sounds like, thats why mozart could write manuscripts for an entire orchestra without making a mistake and in only one copy. And when beethoven went completly deaf why would he need to chop of the legs of his piano to hear the notes if they are all ready in his head? I really love Beethoven, Hammerklavier all the way, but when it comes to perfect pitch, he just didnt pass the test!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:31 pm 
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When it comes to guitar I can "guess" the key or the note and be right almost every time. I can sing a note pretty close (within a whole step), because of how it feels physically to sing in a certain range. But I know there is a difference between guessing and knowing. I think there are different degrees of accuracy for everyone. I find a close parallel between PP and rhythm. Some people hear it and some just can't. I don't like this "some people are just born w/ it", but it does SEEM like this is so.

For me, I worked (and still do) very hard on my rhythm and have come a long way. I get annoyed now if people lose the groove for just a quarter beat or note, or if the tempo gradually moves 2-3 bpm unintentionally (especially w/ myself!). I don't make a big deal out loud of course, but years ago I never even noticed or cared that much. I hear guys practicing "wrong" with the metronome all the time. Correcting one's rhythm can be tricky amongst professionals and friends because it can be a touchy subject. I hear mistakes I didn't before, but I also now enjoy and appreciate music that is more sophisticated rhythmically (that before bored me). Also I am able learn and memorize more and more complex music, faster and easier. A whole new world has opened up.

I wonder if maybe as children we have the sense of PP and perfect even tempo, and some how "unlearn" it or pick up bad habits. Reversing these bad habits is the challenge. This is what I found w/ rhythm and I wonder if hearing pitches is the same kind of thing. Getting more solid in the groove felt like "tapping in" to something old and long forgotten, but fundamental.

Richard


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:52 pm 
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I don't understand it when people say certain things are "out of tune". Of course tuning has to be relative to something! Most of us tune our guitars to 440Hz. Other instruments tune to 442 (I suppose, I tune my saxophone to 442). Surely if I had perfect pitch (relative to 440) I would have driven myself nuts playing the saxophone. But no?

I don't have perfect pitch. Enlighten me.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:43 pm 
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has anyone ever noticed that the majority of the people with perfect pitch are almost embarased to admit it? i know there is this one guy who lives down the hall from me and has amazing perfect pitch, but when you ask him about it he starts talking really quiet and is like 'i don't know... i guess. i don't know i doubt it.' then says he has to go. i KNOW he has it. for someone who has never studied theory in his life, but can solo and play music on the guitar and keyboard, and is an amazing percusionist.

i just think its odd that someone with such an amazing gift wouldn't want to let people know about it.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 5:58 pm 
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Ryan Layton wrote:
i just think its odd that someone with such an amazing gift wouldn't want to let people know about it.
i know from experience that someone who's more open about it can seem arrogant or something of the sort. i mean, if you're someone who has to work hard to learn your intervals and practice for your aural exams, you're likely to feel slightly resentful of someone (eg, me...) who openly admits to having perfect pitch, never practices for aural and gets perfect or near-perfect results every time.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 4:49 am 
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I tried the David L Burge Perfect Pitch Course and found it had no real effect! The old version I had wasn't designed for guitarists-especially beginners, so it was frustrating, expensive and useless. The newer versions may be better, having said all that in case Mr Burge's lawyers are reading this!

Ten years down the line I find that I do now have very good pitch discrimination. I hear music or someone playing the piano and I can point out what is very slightly sharp or flat-and it's very precise indeed. My classically trained pianist friend can't hear it all despite all her years of training. Another intersting point is that this ability has differing levels of acuity on different days! Some days I have to really try and use it and on others I can't bear to play my guitar since I can't get it perfectly in tune (I should consider the Buzz Feiten adjustment). I guess this is actually relative pitch since I have something to compare with. I couldn't do anything useful with a single pure tone.

Does this ability help? I don't think so, except for tuning ensembles! My musical creativity is still much the same as it always was-why shouldn't it be? You don't need to be super-fit athelete to know the best stategy in running a marathon. You don't need to be an expert mechanic to be a top F1 racing driver. So why do you need perfect pitch to be a top musician?

It might be a cool trick to perform at parties, it might speed up the transcribing process if you don't have an instrument to hand, but I'd rather practice my scales and finger exercises and listen to great, diverse music and learn from it than worry about trying to develop perfect pitch-if that is indeed possible.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:14 am 
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I've been doing some digging around and I cannot find any research on David L Burge's Perfect Pitch Supercourse. There's plenty of research about PP itself but not about this course.

The reference at the bottom of the website page suggests that the research wasn't published in a peer reviewed journal if at all. This all looks very suspicious. I've emailed the Super Course people to ask where I can get hold of a copy of the research to read myself. I await their reply. If it really is 401 pages long that makes it twice as long as my PhD thesis! As a general rule, most research papers are on three or four pages long in biological sciences.

I must say this appears very suspicious. If the course really does work, one might expect it to be used in music schools all over the world and meet musicians who have acquired pp through it. I have yet to do so. Have you?

Here, in the UK, if a company makes unsubstantiated claims about their products, they can be prosecuted (Advertising Standard Office). If such a Govenment organisation exists in the USA, would somebody let me know. I suspect David L Burge needs to be brought to their attention.

Interestingly the Burge does not advertise in the UK music press.

Anil


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 7:25 pm 
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BUMP


people keep posting in the other PP, so i'll resurrect this one


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:12 pm 
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Zebula77 wrote:
I'm far from having perfect pitch, but I have good ear-memory (if you can call it that). For example, I know that 'Shine on you crazy diamond' starts with a G minor chord. So, if you ask me to sing a G, I can do that just be thinking about that song. And my memory is alawys correct, funnily enough. Also, I can use this memory to sometimes immediately identify notes that I hear, by linking them to songs that I know (and which key they're in).

Now of course, this doesn't always work. It's not as if someone just plays a note on the piano and I can identify it right away. I mean, I can if I remember a song where that note is the key, but sometimes I have to sort of think about it for a while, but I usually figure it out after a while.

It's useful, but of course not as useful as perfect pitch would be, and of course I can't hear it if something is slightly off.


LOL! i thought i was the only one..


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:03 am 
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I bought a very interesting (slim) book by Bruce Arnold called Ear Training: One Note Complete (ISBN: 1890944475)-it comes with three CDs of exercises. This is essentially a means of improving one's relative pitch-a skill that many noted musicians suggest is more useful than perfect pitch.

I'll try and explain- his idea is that you can memorize the sound of a diatonic scale tone in the context of the underlying chord progression. In other words, your ear is 'tuned in' by a IV-V-I chord progression and then the sound of a diatonic note from the scale is memorized (by constant repetition). He suggests that with practice you will be able to quickly tell that a particular note you're hearing is the subdominant or mediant or whatever of the scale set up by the harmony of the music! You won't necessarily be able to identify the actual note, but you'll know the context of what you're hearing! This sounds as though it's achievable and useful too. No grand claims here just repetition!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:45 pm 
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ultrazone_seeker wrote:
RAI wrote:
Yes he does, and I believe he claims that it was something he wasn't born with, but actually practiced until he got it.......
:(
Wish I could do that.

to the extent of my knowledge, that's actually not true (i don't know if you're going to like hearing this next bit...). supposedly everyone's born with it, but most people lose it due to lack of use.


How can someone be born with it?? You have to understand the concept of pitches and note names to be able to identify one that is played...and I know no one is born knowing that.


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