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 Post subject: Re: An Action Dilemma
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:58 pm 
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kyle,theres no reason why you cant do a perfectly good job yourself,setting up a guitar is all about experience.
trial and error is the best way to get a guitar setup exactly how you want it and not what a guitar tech thinks you might like,and most guitar techs learnt from experience themselves.
i have been a pro guitarist and teacher for over 20 years and i am very fussy about how my guitar plays and although in the past i have used techs i much prefer to do it myself and set my guitars up to my exacting specs.
i now also build guitars from scratch and there is nothing more rewarding to me than playing a guitar i have made myself.
keep playing with your setup and eventually you will become expert in getting a guitar to play how you want it to.


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 Post subject: Re: An Action Dilemma
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:56 pm 
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getting a floyd/edge trem guitar set up is an art-

it takes a lot of experience...

i don't think you can mess with it/do it on your own

i don't think you've ever played a well set up guitar...

i'm the cheapest person on earth- i don't have 100 bucks to blow on a set up- but once you do- its worth it...


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 Post subject: Re: An Action Dilemma
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:12 pm 
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Well, if you don't try, you'll never get 'a lot of experience'...
It isn't rocket science. There are plenty of guides online to get you started.

j


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 Post subject: Re: An Action Dilemma
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:24 pm 
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[quote="Jeroen"]Well, if you don't try, you'll never get 'a lot of experience'...
It isn't rocket science. There are plenty of guides online to get you started.

exactly.

also the trouble with any setup is this,if the temp changes,the humidity changes the setup needs adjusting.


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 Post subject: Re: An Action Dilemma
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:37 pm 
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exactly! Thank you. I've been doing fine on my own and apart from a fret dress I can pretty much do anything I need to. Ok but I have a slight problem- I have a TON of buzzing. I've tried neck adjustments but nothings working. I have tried different heights of the trem, etc and it is just buzz on random frets all over the neck. Is there anything I can do?
paulh123 wrote:
kyle,theres no reason why you cant do a perfectly good job yourself,setting up a guitar is all about experience.
trial and error is the best way to get a guitar setup exactly how you want it and not what a guitar tech thinks you might like,and most guitar techs learnt from experience themselves.
i have been a pro guitarist and teacher for over 20 years and i am very fussy about how my guitar plays and although in the past i have used techs i much prefer to do it myself and set my guitars up to my exacting specs.
i now also build guitars from scratch and there is nothing more rewarding to me than playing a guitar i have made myself.
keep playing with your setup and eventually you will become expert in getting a guitar to play how you want it to.


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 Post subject: Re: An Action Dilemma
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:40 pm 
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how do I get experience if I get someone else to do it? And how does a tech who I don't know know exactly how I want my guitar setup?
Jeries wrote:
getting a floyd/edge trem guitar set up is an art-

it takes a lot of experience...

i don't think you can mess with it/do it on your own

i don't think you've ever played a well set up guitar...

i'm the cheapest person on earth- i don't have 100 bucks to blow on a set up- but once you do- its worth it...


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 Post subject: Re: An Action Dilemma
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:55 pm 
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say

'i want a super low action with no buzz- i want the bar to go up and down- and this is what i tune to and these are the strings i use'

then he does it til you're happy


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 Post subject: Re: An Action Dilemma
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:38 pm 
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Ok, well I've been having a really tough time with the whole neck shim thing, I've been getting the bridge raised but as soon as I get the bridge raised high enough, the action is too high, and the lower I put the action, the bridge is too low. Anyway, apart from all that, the bridge height isnt really that important, the action is, but when I get the action to a low enough point I get MASSIVE amounts of buzzing. Even when I put the action really really high, I still get buzzing with the shim. I've tried diff sized shims at different lengths, thicknesses, and I've given my neck a workout by doing all kinds of adjustments to get the damn guitar to get rid of the buzz.

Nothing worked.i literally worked on it ALL DAY- about 7-8hours straight without stopping. I've barley eaten and now I've finally got my guitar back together without the shim. I finally finished and it's about 12 here in NJ and I'm sick of working on this thing. Im definitley not looking foward to resetting the whole thing up the old way without the shim so i have a point of reference.

SO, I've decided that this IS something I truly cannot handle and that it was definitely worth a shot. I'm pretty sure that this is something only someone no less of an expert can fix, or else I'd do it myself (and trust me, I did EVERY possible thing... Possible). I've decided to go back to guitar center because I really like the guy there, he did my sustainer and the new bridge studs and it worked out really well. So I decided to write down every single possible thing I could about what I need, so I did.

http://imageshack.us/a/img17/4036/dkof.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img196/3483/l78j.jpg

Hopefully the luthiers at GC can fix the problem, because quite frankly I know I've just gotten the sustainer in and shit, but I'm just so sick of dealing with crappy guitars (maybe it's not the guitars, maybe it's just I like to put expensive mods on a guitar that was never meant to and couldn't handle my mods). If it Dosent work, I'll just buy the ibanez prestige with lo pro edge already in it at the used section at GC for $500 that I've been watching for 5 months ;) or maybe I'll just wait a year or two and buy a jem. Maybe I'll even take out my sustainer and make a flo replica that's actually really a flo exact replica, with the back route, backstop, beat up body, yellow pickguard, dirty tape, with the hybrid aanj ;) .


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 Post subject: Re: An Action Dilemma
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:26 pm 
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don't be surprised if you have some significant problems with the neck/fretboard

the board is probably not TRUE
and getting it true reqires more than what the guitar costs- BUT a decent fretdress should be able to save you- a good tech can compensate for the problems the fretboard has

($3000 guitars come out of the factory with f'd up necks and bad fretwork)

If you're using 9's 2-3 springs should be fine
My guitar has 2 springs and i use 8's on all of them.

I used to use Fender American Springs but now i use genuine floyd springs

my guitar guy will literally spend an hour getting the perfect set of 2-3 springs to do everything it needs to and make it perfect--(that's why he's backed up 3 months)

The guy that does my guitars toured with Michael Schenker for decades and worked with Glenn Campbell and many many others- however he doesn't brag about it and never talks about it

I wouldn't recommend guitar center- check craigslist or yelp or google for local guys- and find one that knonws everything about Ibanez.

I've had some guys do wiring for me- who were so stupid they couldn't tell the neck was warped beyond repair.

Don't get bummed out if the guitar is in bad bad shape... it's normal on 350s to have neck problems...

My second sustainer guitar i got that's in the shop waiting for a bridge--- i took my tech a dozen Ibanez RGs i bought on craigslist- showed him and said 'is this good enough to put a sustainer in or should i get another one and sell this one' several guitars later he found a keeper worth putting the work into.

On the other hand- my first sustainer guitar- i got BRAND NEW IN THE BOX- handed the guy the box and the sustainer kit and said 'do it'

months down the line- i realized 'oh shit this guitar sucks' and the neck pocket was cracked and it had some problems- luckily some neck shimming, nut shimming a new nut/springs/etc its good now. it still needs a touch up once in a while and gets fucked up out of nowhere for no reason all the time- it happens.

but i'll be honest- for 2 years i could never get the guitar in tune...i had it blocked/unblocked a few times...i tried everything- i have probably had half a dozen set ups on it - it takes work

you need someone that knows what they're doing... ask around...do your homework...


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 Post subject: Re: An Action Dilemma
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:39 am 
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kyle i see in the pic you posted you say the knife edge should be visible from the side,this is not correct,yes you need to see it so you set the trem"flat" but you should then set the trem height according to how high you want the string action,i normally find you can only see the top edge of the knife edge if at all.
what i do is set the trem "flat" with the trem high,lower the trem so i roughly have the correct string height then measure the distance between the tip of the trem arm and the guitar body so i have that measurement for future reference when setting up a particular guitar.

your fretwork is more involved and you could be better letting a pro do the work for you unless you want to spend on tools.


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 Post subject: Re: An Action Dilemma
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:28 am 
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well how high is Vai's action? I just took that picture from all about evo.

And yeah, what Jeries said, I can't get this guitar in tune any more. It definitely needs new springs too. I'll search around and see if I can find anyone else
paulh123 wrote:
kyle i see in the pic you posted you say the knife edge should be visible from the side,this is not correct,yes you need to see it so you set the trem"flat" but you should then set the trem height according to how high you want the string action,i normally find you can only see the top edge of the knife edge if at all.
what i do is set the trem "flat" with the trem high,lower the trem so i roughly have the correct string height then measure the distance between the tip of the trem arm and the guitar body so i have that measurement for future reference when setting up a particular guitar.

your fretwork is more involved and you could be better letting a pro do the work for you unless you want to spend on tools.


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 Post subject: Re: An Action Dilemma
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:29 am 
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who the f cares how high Vai keeps his strings...

be yourself...find what you like... it's about you...

What works for Vai works for Vai- work on what works for you...

(Vai uses 9's and when i saw/played/touched EVO thought the action was VERY high for my taste- which for most people is still probably a low action)

My guitars are set up with 8s and have a super super super low action... and pretty much no buzz..

neck/nut shimmed- proper setup fretdress new springs new nut etc... it's also set up by the best person in town...

my guy is backed up a min of 3 months for a guitar- once i waited 6 months

andddd you think waiting 3 months the price would be cheap/discounted- NO he's well above the prices of everyone else in town...

BUT he knows his shit...

Once you get it perfect- and you'll think the $100 bucks you spent was the best 100 you spent on guitar... don't be stupid- so don't take all the strings off... don't screw around with it... use the SAME BRAND SAME GUAGE of strings... and change them one string at a time.


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 Post subject: Re: An Action Dilemma
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:02 pm 
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im not saying I want Vai's action, Paul just said that sometimes the knife edge rectangle isn't always visible. I took the picture from all about evo and the rectangle was visible. I was just wondering how high Vai's action was, wether it was high or low compared to the position of the rectangle that is the knife edges. If you look at my other post I wrote down exactly what needs to be done on my guitar. On that was the picture from all about evo.
Jeries wrote:
who the f cares how high Vai keeps his strings...

be yourself...find what you like... it's about you...

What works for Vai works for Vai- work on what works for you...

(Vai uses 9's and when i saw/played/touched EVO thought the action was VERY high for my taste- which for most people is still probably a low action)

My guitars are set up with 8s and have a super super super low action... and pretty much no buzz..

neck/nut shimmed- proper setup fretdress new springs new nut etc... it's also set up by the best person in town...

my guy is backed up a min of 3 months for a guitar- once i waited 6 months

andddd you think waiting 3 months the price would be cheap/discounted- NO he's well above the prices of everyone else in town...

BUT he knows his shit...

Once you get it perfect- and you'll think the $100 bucks you spent was the best 100 you spent on guitar... don't be stupid- so don't take all the strings off... don't screw around with it... use the SAME BRAND SAME GUAGE of strings... and change them one string at a time.


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