I <3 Fender

For discussion of Ibanez, other guitars, and general guitar topics.
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ultrazone_seeker
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#16 Post by ultrazone_seeker » Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:32 am

munchocruncho wrote:
Big Bad Bill wrote:I'm not sure-I'd had to look that up. It'd certainly account for the buzzing sound on the track.
William, i love you, but SHADDAP.
THanks, ;)
I'm with you, Bill. i'm glad when someone with pretty much the same viewpoint as me gets in first and says it better than i could. :wink:

that's not to say it's all bad. i've got a Strat myself, but that's more than enough. ditto with a Marshall.

as for the whole tone issue, i might just mention this: have you ever considered that Strats and everything we associate with them, tone and all, are so ingrained into our musical culture that we'd quite easily be judging everything else by how it measures up against those characteristics? hell, them and Gibson probably wouldn't need to spend half of what they do for advertising - guitar magazines, beginner's guitar books, musical historians and everyone else seem ever so eager to tell anyone who doesn't know about the historical debt we owe to Les and Leo (i.e, Fender and Gibson) for their development of the electic guitar.

anyway, i'm not going to drag on any more, except to say one last thing: for all of you who are so fascinated with the legend of Leo Fender, have you made sure to get a good understanding of the whole story, including, for example, G&L?

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#17 Post by Big Bad Bill » Sat Aug 06, 2005 3:19 am

I have to admit to taking a bit of pleasure in winding up Fender fans-they're and easy target, because if you say something even slightly critical of Teles or Strats they go amusingly wild (like Mac users!). That's OK because they're passionate about about them-and that's a good thing. But objectively taking everything into account-cost, design, materials, hype- you have to admit that Fenders do not constitue value for money/value for tone/value for design compared with some other models and makes out there. But since they don't have the iconic staus of Fender, they go overlooked-and this is a shame especially for young guitarist on a budget who feel frustration at not having a Fender!

And ultrazone_seeker-I love your idea of the 'Fender phenomenon' being a part of the Westerner's cultural make up-against which all other tones and designs are compared. It explains a lot of observations we see here! I think some learned person has given this idea a name-?MIME? and they've suggested that a mime is like a piece of cultural blueprint (like genes) that can be passed on through generations like genes can be!

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#18 Post by ultrazone_seeker » Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:41 am

Big Bad Bill wrote:And ultrazone_seeker-I love your idea of the 'Fender phenomenon' being a part of the Westerner's cultural make up-against which all other tones and designs are compared. It explains a lot of observations we see here!
do you prefer cheque or PayPal? :wink: :lol:

i'll hasten to add that any criticism you can throw at Fender still doesn't make their gear bad as such (oh yeah, i already said that, but i'll leave it there now that i've said it), but someone who takes a step back from the real-life pantomime can only stand to hear so much blind praise.

second additional point: in almost ANY sector of commerce, creativity or whatever else, we as the human race have the unfortunate tendency of making archetypes of certain things at the expense of other things of equal merit. fill in the blanks for whatever matter you want to apply that to, but it seems to apply to just about everything where you have a choice of "names". is that right? probably not, but it's not changing, so it's just something to get around mentally. hope that makes sense...

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#19 Post by Ryan Layton » Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:01 am

so how much fender gear do you guys own, and what type of music do you play


i bet i can go ahead and answer this one for you guys.

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#20 Post by ultrazone_seeker » Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:12 am

i've already said, i've got the one Strat, that's it. it's good for the kind of stuff that was done on a Strat (i.e, when i play/attempt stuff like Hendrix, Dire Straits, SRV etc.) and when i feel like playing in that kind of style, but i usually prefer my Universe or my RG.

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#21 Post by Ryan Layton » Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:16 am

so what style of music do you play

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#22 Post by ultrazone_seeker » Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:29 am

Ryan Layton wrote:so what style of music do you play
it varies, but the point (at least for me) is that even if there were certain styles that should be done on a Strat and nothing else, i wouldn't be playing enough to justify getting a second.

and look, i seriously don't understand what you're so touchy about. no guitar maker (and for that matter, no one and nothing) is immune from criticism (unless you live in a society so fascist that it successfully brainwashes 100% of its population). it's that simple.

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#23 Post by Ryan Layton » Sat Aug 06, 2005 9:35 am

its not that i am getting touchy, it is that you just can't let it go that some people like fenders and they would not want another guitar, because the fender does what they need it to. people like you come along and rain on our parade and say 'no my jem is better because i worship steve vai all day long and doesn't play a fender so they must suck'

thats what i gather from it anyway

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#24 Post by Bold_As_Love » Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:47 pm

Its a guitar, they all have six strings. Shut up and play!

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#25 Post by ultrazone_seeker » Sat Aug 06, 2005 6:48 pm

Ryan Layton wrote:its not that i am getting touchy, it is that you just can't let it go that some people like fenders and they would not want another guitar, because the fender does what they need it to.
i said no such thing. i've said repeatedly that they're not necessarily bad, and even that i own one, and it's good for what it is but that's enough for me. and if someone considers Fenders to be the ideal guitars for them, great - their choice, not mine. what i won't let go is that there's plenty of guitars that would be equally suitable for the job, but simply aren't as well known.
Ryan Layton wrote:people like you come along and rain on our parade and say 'no my jem is better because i worship steve vai all day long and doesn't play a fender so they must suck'
i've also said (maybe it was on the other thread) that i don't own a Jem for similar reasons. and once more: my point of view is not that of an outright Fender basher, merely a skeptic who doesn't take any and all praise for Fender as inalienable truth.
Ryan Layton wrote:thats what i gather from it anyway
with all due respect, you could do to conduct your "gathering" with a bit more care.

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#26 Post by Ryan Layton » Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:20 pm

while i thank you for picking apart my posts, i think i'll just point out that this is the I <3 Fender thread. I made it because i was sick of all the fender bashing. you can make a "ryan is an ignorant shit who loves fender" thread. i don't care. but this is an appreciation thread.

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#27 Post by ultrazone_seeker » Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:27 pm

1. i didn't think i had such a talent with post dissection, but now my work in that field seems to be in demand? too bad it's not something you can make a living from, eh? :roll:
2. you've got your own reasons for making this thread, but in a way you just created a more suitable place for this argument to take place (a thread on a particular guitar vs. Fender in general).
3. i've repeatedly stated both that i don't mean to imply that Fender is inherently bad; and also that merely stating my personal opinion is not intended, and shouldn't be taken, as a personal attack. on top of that, i'll make it clear that i don't have anything against you personally in the first place, and even if i did, the creation of a thread with your suggested title would, you know, kind of be a slight breach of forum rules. and on top of that, creating another thread to carry on an argument that seems to inevitably come to a standstill seems rather pointless.

anyway, you'll be pleased to know that this is the last i'll have to say in this thread. assuming you don't say anything more that requires me to speak up for myself.

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#28 Post by TonyMacalpine » Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:08 pm

Fenders are great guitars, getting the most from them is a matter of time and technology. If you know how to set them up properly, you can make them play better that ibanez, esp, or nething else out there (i have those guitars and my strat plays better than they do). its really an individual thing. tone wise, great fenders sound great and cheap import ones sound, wel u know. i think theyre a great value (assuming that you take care of them

im gonna step out an a limb and say what i partially know to be true. in the 80's when alot of companies were makin waves (esp, ibanez, etc), basically the shred guitar companies, they were giving out endorsements (my music teachers had them and still have them). fender on the other hand was not, they still dont do it that often (give full endorsements that is). with the jem, ibanez gave steve what ever he wanted. even if he had a deal with fender, i dont think they would have done that (same with gibson). only reason im saying this is that its unfair to say that fender guitars are trash because a particular person with great tone doesnt play them in favor of some other make or model. vai plays jems (he doesnt play rg's, but its not the same for some reason). Also, fender guitars in the 70's and much of the 80's SSSSUUUUUUUCCCCCCCKKKKKKKEEEDD. i say that and i'm a fender lover. idk what was going on then, but strats got their asses handed to them back then. ever since then and definitely before then, theyve been great guitars.

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#29 Post by Real_Confusions » Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:09 pm

Bold_As_Love wrote:Its a guitar, they all have six strings. Shut up and play!
One of mine has seven. :lol:

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#30 Post by j.arledge » Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:15 pm

Real_Confusions wrote:
Bold_As_Love wrote:Its a guitar, they all have six strings. Shut up and play!
One of mine has seven. :lol:
yeah i have that has 7 too.

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