VAI.COM

The Official Steve Vai Website Message Boards.
It is currently Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:19 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:40 pm 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:53 am
Posts: 31
Location: Near Nuremberg, Germany
Disclaimer: This is a shameless cross-post to several forums, but since my original post generated a lot of very interesting discussion with lots of good stories and valuable comments from other musicians, I thought I'd just go ahead and post it here as well:

I'd like to share this little list of things I learned in the six months following the release of my band's debut album. :)


When you release an album, you will realize that...

1. ... relying on online acquaintances to help promote your music (e.g., by writing reviews if they like it) is mostly futile. This can even harm your however loose relationship with people when they disappoint you for no good reason.

2. ... on the other hand, sometimes perfect strangers can become untiring champions of your music which feels just great. :)

3. ... some magazines and review pages can't even be bothered to reply to a promo offer via e-mail. Makes you really want to send them a CD just like that, eh? :|

4. ... a large part of many reviews is just a slightly re-phrased version of your official band biography. So better make sure it's well-written. :D

5. ... a surprising percentage of positive (!) reviews doesn't include a single nicely quotable sentence. :(

6. ... even when your guest star is very obviously featured on your entire album, some "professionals" will still write that he "guests on a couple of tracks". :roll:

7. ... you were clearly influenced by <insert band you've never heard in your life>.

8. ... some people buy your album (thanks!) but then share their download link with all their friends (WTF?!). It's one form of "support", I guess... :x

9. ... quite a few of your online acquaintances don't legally obtain music at all (they might make an exception for their favorite band).

10. ... you shouldn't expect people to stick to public announcements like "I will buy this ASAP", especially coming from other musicians. :mrgreen:


To be continued...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:50 am 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 5:04 pm
Posts: 215
Location: Earth
This is a good topic to post! I know alot of musicans have mentenioned @ least 3 of the thing's you mentioned.

My dad used to quote Less Paul " If your in the music business to make money, your in it for the wrong reasons" You play music becasue you love too. "
When my dad would say that it was almost a slap in the face for me as a kid. I wanted to be a rock guitarist since I was 5. :roll:

8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:41 pm 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:53 am
Posts: 31
Location: Near Nuremberg, Germany
Thanks, Trinity! :D

We're not in it to make money, but it sure would be nice if we could at least recoup the costs of the recording at some point! :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:22 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:50 am
Posts: 202
Location: Brazil
Can I add more two?

11. You end up with dozens of new ideas to the songs when it's too late to change the songs;

12. Strangers pick up details that you've never noticed before on your own songs.

:?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:20 am 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 5:04 pm
Posts: 215
Location: Earth
Rachmaninoff wrote:
Can I add more two?

11. You end up with dozens of new ideas to the songs when it's too late to change the songs;

12. Strangers pick up details that you've never noticed before on your own songs.

:?

I've encountered that playing out! # 11 that happens after I lay the basic tracks down while recording. Thats why I dont fully mix and master the tracks until I've test driven the new idea's with the foundation tracks.

8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:06 pm 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:05 pm
Posts: 50
Location: Orlando, FL USA
It's funny because it's true!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 7:35 am 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 26, 2003 10:33 am
Posts: 288
Kyo wrote:
9. ... quite a few of your online acquaintances don't legally obtain music at all (they might make an exception for their favorite band).



Sorry, can't help myself, but... if you think you're going to be a billionaire after selling one album -- you're mistaken. It's not what it used to be 20-30 years ago.

Your one and only target as a musician should be touring with your music as much as humanly possible. This is the only way to make decent money on music these days.


That said, you should thank those people who spread your music over the Internet, thus working on your popularity for free.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:58 pm 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:53 am
Posts: 31
Location: Near Nuremberg, Germany
Matwey wrote:
Kyo wrote:
9. ... quite a few of your online acquaintances don't legally obtain music at all (they might make an exception for their favorite band).

Sorry, can't help myself, but... if you think you're going to be a billionaire after selling one album -- you're mistaken. It's not what it used to be 20-30 years ago.

And why do you think that's what I think? :roll: None of us is doing this to get rich, otherwise we'd be pretty damn stupid to record such uncommercial music. But it sure would be nice to at least recoup most of the recording costs some day.

Quote:
Your one and only target as a musician should be touring with your music as much as humanly possible. This is the only way to make decent money on music these days.

If you're a band like U2, sure... But the crowds for even rather established progressive artists are usually tiny, so the idea that there is a significant amount of money to be made from touring with music like that is quite frankly laughable. Touring costs a lot of money and is very risky business for less well-known bands. When even a popular prog band like The Flower Kings is constantly losing money on their European tours after more than a decade on the scene, chances that we'll make decent money from touring are slim at best.

You also seem to overlook the fact that we quite simply don't have a full-time band that can just go out and play whenever we want. It's a project, we don't have a keyboard player and our drummer lives in another country. No big deal when you want to record an album, but it does make playing live a bit difficult...


Quote:
That said, you should thank those people who spread your music over the Internet, thus working on your popularity for free.

They can spread the link to our MySpace and Facebook pages where we're streaming the full album for everyone to hear. It's not for them to give away our music for free, so I'm certainly not going to thank them for that.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 4:48 pm 
Offline
Ex-admin
Ex-admin

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:51 am
Posts: 4520
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Matwey wrote:
Kyo wrote:
9. ... quite a few of your online acquaintances don't legally obtain music at all (they might make an exception for their favorite band).



Sorry, can't help myself, but... if you think you're going to be a billionaire after selling one album -- you're mistaken. It's not what it used to be 20-30 years ago.

Your one and only target as a musician should be touring with your music as much as humanly possible. This is the only way to make decent money on music these days.


That said, you should thank those people who spread your music over the Internet, thus working on your popularity for free.


Jeez, don't you love it when someone thinks they're giving you a reality check, when they don't know what they're talking about?

As someone who actually works in the music industry and has an intimate knowledge of how things work when it comes to both recording albums and touring, I can't stress enough how clueless your post is. It's typical of those who who think they know it all, because they read anecdotal evidence on the internet to support their already flawed perspective of the music business.

Kyo didn't say anything about being a billionaire. And if you really did know what you were talking about, you'd also know that even 20-30 years ago it wouldn't make anyone a billionaire either. It never did, and it never will, but that's not what he was hoping for anyway, making your comment pointless.

The fact that you would then tell him to be thankful that people would spread his music for free over the internet without permission is completely insulting.

People who have attitudes like this are part of the gradual decline of artists being able to make any money at all with their art. I can hardly fathom the disrespect you have for struggling artists who are simply trying to get paid for their work - which isn't asking much.

Totally shameful.

Kyo - all the best to you. Don't be discouraged in the face of adversity. Keep at it, and don't compromise.

You should post a link to where people can buy your record.

Mikey


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:05 pm 
Offline
Ex-admin
Ex-admin

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:51 am
Posts: 4520
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Cancel my last request for a link.

Just bought the CD on iTunes and checking it out now. Awesome stuff!

Congrats.

Mikey :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:34 pm 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:53 am
Posts: 31
Location: Near Nuremberg, Germany
Thanks for your two-fold support, Mikey! :) And great to hear that you're enjoying the music!

As for the link, I have no idea what happened to my signature - the link is usually in there. It does appear when I check it in my user settings, but for some reason it isn't displayed underneath my posts anymore. Weird!

It should be like this:
--
"Freedom in the 21st Century means being incommunicado."

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:11 pm 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 26, 2003 10:33 am
Posts: 288
Kyo wrote:
Matwey wrote:
Kyo wrote:
9. ... quite a few of your online acquaintances don't legally obtain music at all (they might make an exception for their favorite band).

Sorry, can't help myself, but... if you think you're going to be a billionaire after selling one album -- you're mistaken. It's not what it used to be 20-30 years ago.

And why do you think that's what I think? :roll: None of us is doing this to get rich, otherwise we'd be pretty damn stupid to record such uncommercial music. But it sure would be nice to at least recoup most of the recording costs some day.



That is a nice excuse. Let's say you sold 1000 tracks for $1 -- does it cover your expenses?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:16 pm 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 26, 2003 10:33 am
Posts: 288
Mikey wrote:
Matwey wrote:
Kyo wrote:
9. ... quite a few of your online acquaintances don't legally obtain music at all (they might make an exception for their favorite band).



Sorry, can't help myself, but... if you think you're going to be a billionaire after selling one album -- you're mistaken. It's not what it used to be 20-30 years ago.

Your one and only target as a musician should be touring with your music as much as humanly possible. This is the only way to make decent money on music these days.


That said, you should thank those people who spread your music over the Internet, thus working on your popularity for free.


Jeez, don't you love it when someone thinks they're giving you a reality check, when they don't know what they're talking about?

As someone who actually works in the music industry and has an intimate knowledge of how things work when it comes to both recording albums and touring, I can't stress enough how clueless your post is. It's typical of those who who think they know it all, because they read anecdotal evidence on the internet to support their already flawed perspective of the music business.

Kyo didn't say anything about being a billionaire. And if you really did know what you were talking about, you'd also know that even 20-30 years ago it wouldn't make anyone a billionaire either. It never did, and it never will, but that's not what he was hoping for anyway, making your comment pointless.

The fact that you would then tell him to be thankful that people would spread his music for free over the internet without permission is completely insulting.

People who have attitudes like this are part of the gradual decline of artists being able to make any money at all with their art. I can hardly fathom the disrespect you have for struggling artists who are simply trying to get paid for their work - which isn't asking much.

Totally shameful.

Kyo - all the best to you. Don't be discouraged in the face of adversity. Keep at it, and don't compromise.

You should post a link to where people can buy your record.

Mikey



Mikey, it's nice to see you here again. And I do really like your response.


'Billionaire' was figurative speech. I guess you know what I'm talking about. That is a middle point between going Pop like Lady Gaga making it a product and actually non-commercial music(as Kyo said) that simply doesn't sell.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:42 pm 
Offline
Ex-admin
Ex-admin

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:51 am
Posts: 4520
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Non-commercial music does sell. It just doesn't shift in numbers like mainstream pop acts, and this is why people sharing that non-commercial music without the consent of the owner of the work is particularly damaging to the artist. It's damaging to all artists, but the rate of return is higher with pop.

I didn't get the impression that Kyo was under any illusion that this was going to make everyone in the band rich. He was just hoping to at least recoup expenses.

The sad irony is that non-commercial bands who attempt to appeal to a broader audience but making more "accessible" music are usually scorned by their limited fan bases for "selling out" - yet these same fan bases' support is often poor to begin with (as we can see from Kyo's post above.)

I don't really get why you're on the attack here though.

Remember, the general musical tastes of people on this board are firmly planted in "non-commercial" music, so clearly there is a market.

Mikey


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:34 pm 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 26, 2003 10:33 am
Posts: 288
I'm not on the attack, just trying to state that ways of music promotion have changed. :)


As to non-commercial music, P&W was non-commercial. And if you try and see why it turned out to be highly successful commercially -- you'll see that any popularity is good popularity. Thus, free downloads actually help to sell the music, because there are people who buy it and there are also people who listen it for free and then telling others it's a good stuff to consider. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group