SATRIANI SUES COLDPLAY

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al
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Re: SATRIANI SUES COLDPLAY

#16 Post by al » Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:32 am

I don't think taking personal attack to Joe is the best thing to do im sure we don't know the full story, im sure theres more to it than everyone knows, and im also sure Joe wouldn't personally do it unless he knew what he was doing... coldplay mentioned satriani back in an interview in 2002 and Chris Martin also mentioned being the worlds best plagiarists a while back, how will that hold up in court? But yeah i think fans on both sides shouldnt really bitch about either till the full story comes out, I doubt Joe needs to ring his lawyers to generate revenue for him, he just got off a 1.5 year tour, released a bunch of Satriani products and is recording an album with a super group, So yeah, just dont worry about it till its sorted out

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Re: SATRIANI SUES COLDPLAY

#17 Post by notavirtuoso » Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:06 pm

It isn't like Tom Petty needed the money when he sued the Red Hot Chili Peppers. It isn't about the money. I wouldn't be surprised if Joe donated whatever he got out of the suit to a charity.

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Re: SATRIANI SUES COLDPLAY

#18 Post by wasoota » Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:37 pm

It is very about the money for the lawyers. And I believe Tom Petty ultimately saw the light and didn't sue. This is where he's looking a lot smarter than Satch. I'd be very surprised if Satch donated any money to charity.
al wrote:I don't think taking personal attack to Joe is the best thing to do im sure we don't know the full story, im sure theres more to it than everyone knows, and im also sure Joe wouldn't personally do it unless he knew what he was doing... coldplay mentioned satriani back in an interview in 2002 and Chris Martin also mentioned being the worlds best plagiarists a while back, how will that hold up in court?
That 'Best Plagiarist' quote is as old as Shakespeare. I believe it was he who said something to the effect that there are a finite number of good stories in the world and he was just re-telling age-old stories of love, envy, fear and revenge. The same holds true for music. There are a finite number of chord progressions and melodies that have a reasonable mass appeal. Eventually, by pure statistics, two gifted composers in the realm of mass appeal (i.e. pop) will create the exact same song. That isn't nearly what happened here, but it's in that general direction.

Let's face it, if his lawyers believed they had a fair chance of proving their point on an even playing field they wouldn't be going for the drama of suing a British band in a jury trial in LA. That's just cheap lawyer tricks. They know the accents alone will cost the defendants half their argument in front of an LA jury, composed of people who are ignorant of the creative mechanics of music (or "unbiased" as they will be called) and most likely ignorant in general (because who else doesn't know either Coldplay or Satriani and wants to spend four weeks in isolation on the bench).

The fact that lawyer costs on both sides will be twice the potential payout by the time it goes to trial will do the rest. Coldplay will settle somehow to avoid financial disaster, especially since they're up for several Grammys. The extortion will have worked and Satch can lay back and mull over whether he wants to sue Petrucci over Tunnel Vision vs. Rasperry Jam Delta IV. Because it just can't be a coincidence. Really. (And maybe if Petrucci was up for a Grammy with Suspended Animation Satch would sue him. His legal team seems to have quite an attitude.). - I don't need the whole story. The fact that he didn't call back his Pitbulls while there was time is all I need to know. And I don't even like Coldplay.

If we tolerate this and continue on this path, 50 years from now it will be impossible to make music, because somewhere, behind some dark corner one of your former idols (or his estate) will be preparing to sue you for sounding a too much like him. Or just some unsuccessful moron who happened to write a song nobody knows that sounds like yours.

It's wrong. Plagiarism is stealing an idea, not being inspired by one. To quote Tom Petty in the Rolling Stone:

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/i ... were-cool/
RS: Have you heard the Red Hot Chili Peppers song "Dani California" yet, because obviously it sounds a lot like "Mary Jane's Last Dance."
Petty: Yes, I have. Everyone everywhere is stopping me. The truth is, I seriously doubt that there is any negative intent there. And a lot of rock & roll songs sound alike. Ask Chuck Berry. [...]

RS: There have been news reports that you were going to sue the Chili Peppers.
Petty: If someone took my song note for note and stole it maliciously, then maybe. But I don’t believe in lawsuits much. I think there are enough frivolous lawsuits in this country without people fighting over pop songs.
Words of Wisdom.

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Re: SATRIANI SUES COLDPLAY

#19 Post by Big Bad Bill » Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:51 pm

I completely understand the difference between plagiarism and inspiration and is there was a small section of the Coldpaly song, a phrase or something that sounded like 'If I Could Fly' then I would concede inspiration rather than plagiarism. But the songs follow each other almost verbatim and for for long stretches. Its too much of a coincidence in my opinion and I say that as someone who is not a fan of Satch's music of the last decade or so. But I assume each legal team with have musicologists and composers and other experts pull the songs apart and give their opinion as to whether Coldplays is 'significantly similar' to Satch's.

As for musical ideas running out in 50 years...? Well, recorded music has been around for several hundred and composers seem to continually produce new unique music.

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Re: SATRIANI SUES COLDPLAY

#20 Post by StevieRayVai » Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:24 pm

Buy the single so we can support Satch! NOWWWWW GO GO GO!

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Re: SATRIANI SUES COLDPLAY

#21 Post by Kilar » Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:50 pm

While I surprised Joe actually took the step to sue, I can see the similiarities between the songs for sure. I guese Joe actually has a passion for his music and doesn't want it just taken and used by others. While the overlayed guitars (joes) and other melodys/production (on coldplays) versions are different, the underlying melody/rythum/structure are quite similar... It will be interesting to see how this turns out.
Chris MArtin did a camero on Ricky Gervais' 'Extras' which was pretty damn funny, but I'm gonna support Joe cause he is a all around cool dude :)

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Re: SATRIANI SUES COLDPLAY

#22 Post by al » Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:13 pm

Delta V...

well i was jus sayin... but yeah maybe it may help if we actually did know the whole story before we comment and add about the lawyers paycheck and shakespeare and tom petty quotes, ya know
insert shakespeare quote

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Re: SATRIANI SUES COLDPLAY

#23 Post by notavirtuoso » Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:26 pm

al wrote:
insert shakespeare quote
The man that hath no music in himself, Nor is not moved with concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, stratagems and spoils.

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Re: SATRIANI SUES COLDPLAY

#24 Post by precario » Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:22 pm

This one suits well maybe: "An overflow of good converts to bad"

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Re: SATRIANI SUES COLDPLAY

#25 Post by fyrie » Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:00 pm

al wrote:I don't think taking personal attack to Joe is the best thing to do im sure we don't know the full story, im sure theres more to it than everyone knows, and im also sure Joe wouldn't personally do it unless he knew what he was doing.
Exactly! Also, we've come to know Joe as a stand-up guy over the years. I don't think anyone should be throwing that knowledge of the man's character out the door at this point.

Copyright law gives an artist the right to defend their works. Joe must have enough information in his hands to feel like he has a case.

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Re: SATRIANI SUES COLDPLAY

#26 Post by wasoota » Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:47 am

Lawyers are like napalm. Once you use them, the 'hearts and minds' issue becomes obsolete. It becomes about winning, not being right. Ask any Lawyer.

I believe he has every legal right to do what he is doing. I just think it's a sad day when such a great influence in guitar music sues is progeny for letting themselves be influenced. It's pretty obvious this is not 'malicious' plagiarism, to use Tom Petty's word, even if it is a reference to his song (which remains to be proven). He's suing them to have a court decide how far you have to move away from someone for something to qualify as your own. He suing them over the concept that a certain five-note melody sequence at some point becomes "his". Or rather, he's suing them for a piece of their Grammy-nominated cash pie. Either way, it's sad.

The Joe Satriani I thought I 'knew' would have gone on the record with something like "imitation is the greatest form of flattery I guess, I just would have wished they had admitted to it" and called it a day. Quite obviously though he's much more of a bully than that, far more bitter, more cynical and more full of himself. - Again, sad.

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Re: SATRIANI SUES COLDPLAY

#27 Post by al » Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:18 am

Well i don't particularly care about how the lawyers operate, they do what they do... i dont think Joe is bitter, cynical, full of himself or even a bully!, its far from the truth, doesnt sound like you knew him at all he's probably one of the nicest people ive ever met, but even if he is being bitchy and uptight about the whole situation, im still not gona knock him or completly change my opinion of him, he's been in this business for a long time.

yeah it would be great if he said that and it was all fine n dandy about plagiarism is flattering but maybe this kinda thing happened numerous times in the past and he's just speaking up this time? like i said we don't know the whole thing so im not gona jump to conclusions on either side

as for the timing of the thing, its being going on months before and I don't think the he's looking for some of this grammy nominated cash pie, he has being nominated like 14 times himself already in the past and doubt he rushed out after the grammy nominations were anounced to go and sue... who knows if they'll even win the award, but yeah either way this was happening long before the grammy nominations, im still gona keep an open mind to both sides of the story and hope it all works out, im not gona think less of either side regardless of how it pans out

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Re: SATRIANI SUES COLDPLAY

#28 Post by Breeder » Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:38 am

wasoota wrote:Lawyers are like napalm. Once you use them, the 'hearts and minds' issue becomes obsolete. It becomes about winning, not being right. Ask any Lawyer.
well I am to-be-lawyer and I believe "hear and mind" is never obsolete...I also believe music does not truly belong to anyone...
Frank Zappa wrote:A composer is a guy who goes around forcing his will on unsuspecting air molecules, often with the assistance of unsuspecting musicians
So stop generalizing since it is mother of all fuck-ups

The real problem here is to prove Cold Play did this intentionally...and since we can`t read someone`s mind just yet, we are faced with such silly problems that generally draw their cause from ego (and capitalism) :mrgreen:

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Re: SATRIANI SUES COLDPLAY

#29 Post by Big Bad Bill » Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:17 am

Breeder wrote:
wasoota wrote:So stop generalizing since it is mother of all fuck-ups
The real problem here is to prove Cold Play did this intentionally...and since we can`t read someone`s mind just yet, we are faced with such silly problems that generally draw their cause from ego (and capitalism) :mrgreen:
Law and lawyers are trying to read others minds all the time whatever the case may be. Lawyers interpret (guess) the thoughts, evidence and motivations of their clients or those they are prosecuting with a view to influencing a jury, judge or magistrate with that interpretation. That's all the law is-flawed rules and regulations, peddled by people whose motivations may initially be honourable but eventually become about fees and their own egos wanting to win a case. I have applied to be a magistrate and I observe in court regularly and I am more convinced than ever that there is, for the most part, justice but sometimes this justice depends completely upon the quality of the person defending or prosecuting. (For those in the UK, from my experience, don't let a lawyer represent you in court, get a barrister!)

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Re: SATRIANI SUES COLDPLAY

#30 Post by Jeroen » Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:33 am

Big Bad Bill wrote:Law and lawyers are trying to read others minds all the time whatever the case may be. Lawyers interpret (guess) the thoughts, evidence and motivations of their clients or those they are prosecuting with a view to influencing a jury, judge or magistrate with that interpretation. That's all the law is-flawed rules and regulations, peddled by people whose motivations may initially be honourable but eventually become about fees and their own egos wanting to win a case. I have applied to be a magistrate and I observe in court regularly and I am more convinced than ever that there is, for the most part, justice but sometimes this justice depends completely upon the quality of the person defending or prosecuting. (For those in the UK, from my experience, don't let a lawyer represent you in court, get a barrister!)
Breeder wrote:So stop generalizing since it is mother of all fuck-ups
Sorry, BBB, but with that atitude towards lawyers, you have no business in a courtroom.

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Jeroen

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