At what point and under which circumstances...

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Zzaphod1
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...while training under Joe Sat did Steve say: "Now the student has become the teacher."
Mikey
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At what point did you decide to waste your time signing up to this message board to ask a silly question?

Steve had lessons with Joe for a couple of years when they were in high school. After a while it turned from structured lessons to jam session where they would just play and respond and communicate musically.

Some people think that the things you see Steve playing today are things Joe taught him directly, and this is not the case. Both Steve and Joe have obviously come a long way since they were in their teens, and have honed their craft along the way through real dedication to their instrument.

Neither is "the master" over the other. They are friends and musicians, and being that they are different people, they have different ways of expressing themselves on their instruments.

Music is not a contest. There is no "best" - and people who concentrate on playing guitar like it's a competitive sport are bound to find themselves feeling very unfulfilled.

Steve never said: "Now the student has become the teacher". Steve never spends time thinking about who he's "better than" or who might be "better" than him. He finds inspiration in seeing other players do remarkable things on the guitar, and that makes him strive for his own personal musical goals and expressions - goals that he has set for himself, rather than reactionary goals created out of some sort of perception of comptetition.

Just enjoy the music without wasting your time on stupid stuff like this.

Mikey
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Bono
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Amen to that Mikey.

I remember a couple of years ago during the Evo experience, someone asked Steve who was better out of the two of them (Joe and Steve), and Steve said "That's easy...Joe". He then spoke for the amount of admiration and inspiration Joe gives him, and said that he thought Joe was the greatest player alive...he didn't sound pretentous at all and it sounded like it was coming from the heart...Steve has a hell of a lot of respect for Joe.

Saying that, I'm sure Joe would say the exact same about Steve.
KGNOKODOMO
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well well well
i think is inevitable to fall in the game of who´s better than the other, it is
inherent to human kind to compare and society make us like this.
what do parents tell all the time: do good!!, dont be like that!! you must be better than him-her!! you can do better!!! etc.. etc...
nobody can blame anybody for falling on that game, we need to reconfirm what we like is the best , that is the natural ego thing. is not so silly is what (again) society teach us to do. but finally the natural process makes you realize there is no need for that, what is important is what is good for you. if it makes you feel good or happy that is the best.
Once i visited a wineyard here in Chile (i am a Mexican living in Chile by the way) and the guide said something that may sound stupid, but i think it makes sence, somebody asked well, hmm what is the best wine??
and the guy repalys: ok, i am going to tell you the biggest secret about wine: the bes wine, is........................ that one you enjoy the most!!!!
do you agree?
Mikey
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Nice post :)
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bennyvx78
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I remember being signed onto a dutch guitar forum a while back..
( gitaarnet forum ). and its like, every half hour a thread is openend
about "who the best guitar player" or "who's the greatest" .

And those topics Always end up in fights and senseless discussions.
Its very futile for a forum, and only degrades it to childish behaviour.
Be wise, be unique, create your own personality and listen to
your hearts content.
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guyver_dio
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I'm the best

but I remember the moment when joe said that, it was when joe had rigged a stretching device which consisted of ropes and pulleys around steve's fingers, steve was in absolute agony and had almost let the pain beat him but he closed his eyes he managed to center his mind and all the techniques Joe had bestowed upon him flashed through his mind in an instant and then this awesome Chinese flute sound happened when steve opened his eyes and Joe looked at steve and said 'Now the student has become the teacher'.

but all that's irrelevant since I'm better anyway

longest running music debate has come to a conclusion, I hope this puts your mind at rest.
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bennyvx78
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This is the definitive answer the whole universe has been
waiting for!!.. you want to know who's the best guitarist?.

I say the guy who invented the guitar, perhaps 100's of years
ago.

Now you have the final, closing answer.
:D
teokiatuan
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guyver_dio wrote:I'm the best

but I remember the moment when joe said that, it was when joe had rigged a stretching device which consisted of ropes and pulleys around steve's fingers, steve was in absolute agony and had almost let the pain beat him but he closed his eyes he managed to center his mind and all the techniques Joe had bestowed upon him flashed through his mind in an instant and then this awesome Chinese flute sound happened when steve opened his eyes and Joe looked at steve and said 'Now the student has become the teacher'.

but all that's irrelevant since I'm better anyway

longest running music debate has come to a conclusion, I hope this puts your mind at rest.
WTF
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guyver_dio wrote:I'm the best

but I remember the moment when joe said that, it was when joe had rigged a stretching device which consisted of ropes and pulleys around steve's fingers, steve was in absolute agony and had almost let the pain beat him but he closed his eyes he managed to center his mind and all the techniques Joe had bestowed upon him flashed through his mind in an instant and then this awesome Chinese flute sound happened when steve opened his eyes and Joe looked at steve and said 'Now the student has become the teacher'.

but all that's irrelevant since I'm better anyway

longest running music debate has come to a conclusion, I hope this puts your mind at rest.
Nice post, that made me laugh. There is no best musician, there is no such concept. I agree with KGNOKODOMO's post. Just listen to music and enjoy it. There's way too much crap going on in the internet that distracts people from this simple goal.
jam-man
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Jesus, what a topic... :roll:

Student becoming a teacher...

There's no best int his bussines, I agree, but I also think that Steve is a better composer, while Joe is a better at, let's say, manipulating strings...he can adopt to any music style he is playing, while Steve pretty much uses his leggato, sweep picking and arpeggios in every song...
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notavirtuoso
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This is just a wild guess, but I'm thinking that when you've reached the level they have as musicians, you're only teacher is yourself. You might pick up an odd technique here or there from someone (often times someone nowhere near your level) that you incorporate into your playing, but really that's about it. At that point, it becomes the mission to apply all the techniques you've spent a lifetime mastering and toward as honest a musical expression as possible.
Ultraviolet
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Yeah I remember when that was said,...
They were all over Randy's Mom's house in California,...and Steve, Joe, and Randy just got done with a wild jam session. Randy was working on some classical, and Steve said, "that's nice man" and then Randy put down his white Les Paul, and went over to the answering machine,..and there were like 15 or so messages from 15 of Randy's 70 students for Randy's guitar class,..and being that they were all talking about the high school days,..then Satch and Steve said to Randy,..."So now the student has become the teacher" so I hope this clears things up a bit.

that's right,..there is no best,..only who you adore.


Ultra :)
earthh
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jam-man wrote:Jesus, what a topic... :roll:

Student becoming a teacher...

There's no best int his bussines, I agree, but I also think that Steve is a better composer, while Joe is a better at, let's say, manipulating strings...he can adopt to any music style he is playing, while Steve pretty much uses his leggato, sweep picking and arpeggios in every song...
Maybe that is the better way of looking at it. "They all have the things they do best". I had my three favorites, Ed, Pat and Allan. And they are all so different. And each one had something that got me, crazy for them. Now Steve wrote one of the greatest most uplifting things ever "Attitude Song". That is just so great and I listened to it a lot and it raised my spirits, but I would not put him in my fav three list, he hasn't got in with them yet. Why do I love those other things the best? What got my attention with them... Allan-technique, emotion, complexity his information in the music. Eddie-yeah some of those things plus the humor, madness. Pat had that rhythm/swing and that beauty. The melody, the story, so did Eddie for that matter. They could just tell these great stories. THAT IS SO HARD TO DO. So I would argue, if you want to argue about who's best that those 3 are doing stuff that I don't hear a lot of players able to do. They not only do one thing well they do other things well to. And they were all individuals. They did it first. Now Steve wrote Attitude and other great songs but imo he is not at their level, Joe either! Yeah I know its not a pissing contest, but I think it is. Yes I think some artists have more. They just have more to offer.

I don't know. My own personal prejudice does come into it though. Why do I not care PERHAPS, DON'T WANT TO CARE, because of my prejudice about Django, Christian. Wes or Hendrix. Those are recognised as the greatest players bu I have not appreciated their music yet. So I think it is personal opinion in my case. Because everyone says they are great and I believe the consensus? Even so I have my biases, I really believe that my fav 3 have said more powerful things than Steve or Joe. I do believe thats true. Steve and Joe did not move me, like that. It could nave been because I was young and that wqas why. Maybe that is the prime reason. The first things you hear are the ones that prejudice you. But... I just know that my fav things of Ed and Al and Pat are truly outstanding powerful statements. I feel others would agree if they would listen. If they had any taste :).

So I do think that all intelligent listeners have biases but we all know what has value and a truth will come out. Some artists have more power than others.

Yeah, it is a pissing contest.
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