The day that SATCH lost his tone...

For discussion of all general music topics, Favored Nations artists, Vai-related musicians and all other artists and bands.
The Prez
Member
Member
Posts: 1238
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 11:19 am

lydian7, would you really want him to achieve the same sound or use the same exact equipment? Hey, if you hated SBM, that's alright, if you though Crystal Planet sucked, alright. Like it's been said, the next album will sound different. Maybe SBM is too mellow for some, no, he doesn't blare the marshall, but it's still a good tone. If you want that old satch tone so much you may want to record your own "album"
GuitarStrings
Member
Member
Posts: 795
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 1:05 pm

lydian7 wrote:Alot of us remember Satriani for his peak-period (i.e surfing, extremist ect..), but for many who have just become associated with him, they listen to him on 'Strange beautiful music' for the first time. Is it just me, or is this album his worst yet?
Man I don't agree with you at all.

STRANGE BEAUTIFUL MUSIC ONE OF SATCH'S BEST ALBUMS, IF NOT HIS BEST TO DAY.
hush
Member
Member
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 1:55 pm

I agree with some of the points raised so far.

Crystal Planet was my favorite Satch album. It's the one that drew me into Joe Satriani (starting with "Ceremony"). From there, I worked my way backwards and found everything prior was nicely building up to that album.

But afterwards, "SBM" and "EOC" (to a lesser degree) have failed to engage me. "EOC" has a few interesting songs and when I saw/heard Devil's Slide live on the "Live in San Francisco" DVD, it changed my appreciation of it.



I may open up a can of worms here, but I'd compare the situation to Dream Theater's last two albums, "Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence" and "Metropolis 2000: Scenes From a Memory".

Now concept albums can be a great thing, if you embrace the concept, but if you do not, you're completely alienated.

"SDOIT" doesn't engage me at all and "SFAM" did little to draw me in (I appreciate it more as a novelty than anything else). Even though both have some interesting moments, the mood is... well I guess "uncomfortable" is the only descriptive I can come up with (since I can't go as far as "inexistent"), as opposed to "adventurous", "comforting", etc. Actually, I think "motionless" would be more approriate. I can appreciate that the themes of the two albums might lend such an odd mood but, to me, the approach was more refined and consistent (currently too fragmented) in "A Change of Seasons" and "A Mind Beside Itself", etc.

Now, I feel they have left behind emotionally charged compositions for a sole focus on... technical and thematic exploration? The talent is definitely still there but to me it feels like the music has been intellectualized to the nth degree. To use an expression used by Steve regarding certain modern composers: "It sounds like art for the sake of art". To my ears, it resonates with little emotional investment.

Also, I'm not too fond of the traditional progressive nuances and the current similarities in styles with other Magna Carta artists in these offerings, but rather preferred their unique blend of modern progressive rock. I miss the old Dream Theater with their combination of technical ability, odd timing, groove, emotion AND lyrics.

Furthermore, I much preferred the emotional contribution of Kevin (Moore) and Derek (Sherinian) to the technical contribution of Jordan (Rudess).

Wrapping it up, Dream Theater in its present incarnation make me seriously question wheter or not to even consider purchasing their new album. My hope rests on John Petrucci to continue to nourish my cravings in his solo ventures.



As for Joe (to get back to the subject at hand), I (like others, from what I can see) hope he gets back to exploring where he left off with "Crystal Planet" eventually.

Regardless of how I feel about Joe and Dream Theater's musical direction, I believe we must respect theirs wishes. Who are we to dictate where they should take THEIR music. We can only express our opinions and hope our musical paths shall cross once again... :roll:


------------------------

In VAI we trust...
Last edited by hush on Tue Oct 21, 2003 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Prez
Member
Member
Posts: 1238
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 11:19 am

What I'm saying is, it is better he's doing something different? Really, would it be worse if he was just trying to copy Surfing or the Extremist, of course it would!
GuitarStrings
Member
Member
Posts: 795
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 1:05 pm

hush wrote:I may open up a can of worms here, but I'd compare the situation to Dream Theater's last two albums, "Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence" and "Metropolis 2000: Scenes From a Memory".

Now concept albums can be a great thing, if you embrace the concept, but if you do not, you're completely alienated.

"SDOIT" doesn't engage me at all and "SFAM" did little to draw me in (I appreciate it more as a novelty than anything else). Even though both have some interesting moments, the mood is... well I guess "uncomfortable" is the only descriptive I can come up with (since I can't go as far as "inexistent"), as opposed to "adventurous", "comforting", etc. Actually, I think "motionless" would be more approriate. I can appreciate that the themes of the two albums might lend such an odd mood but, to me, the approach was more refined and consistent (currently too fragmented) in "A Change of Seasons" and "A Mind Beside Itself", etc.
Are you human or what??? I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH YOU about what you said about 6 Degrees of Inner Turbulence! Right yesterday I've listened to that 42 epic song for 4 times in a row and never got bored!!! It's such a great piece if music with so many highlights... as the song ended I cound not help tearing. It's so touching. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is an absolute Masterpiece. I do have all Dream Theater's albums... and I do agree with you about how their style has changed, but you can't pretend a dynamic band like Dream Theater to keep on their way to make music on forever.
Sorry about my english.
GuitarStrings
Member
Member
Posts: 795
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 1:05 pm

hush wrote:I may open up a can of worms here, but I'd compare the situation to Dream Theater's last two albums, "Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence" and "Metropolis 2000: Scenes From a Memory".

Now concept albums can be a great thing, if you embrace the concept, but if you do not, you're completely alienated.

"SDOIT" doesn't engage me at all and "SFAM" did little to draw me in (I appreciate it more as a novelty than anything else). Even though both have some interesting moments, the mood is... well I guess "uncomfortable" is the only descriptive I can come up with (since I can't go as far as "inexistent"), as opposed to "adventurous", "comforting", etc. Actually, I think "motionless" would be more approriate. I can appreciate that the themes of the two albums might lend such an odd mood but, to me, the approach was more refined and consistent (currently too fragmented) in "A Change of Seasons" and "A Mind Beside Itself", etc.
Are you human or what??? I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH YOU about what you said about 6 Degrees of Inner Turbulence! Right yesterday I've listened to that 42 epic song for 4 times in a row and never got bored!!! It's such a great piece if music with so many highlights... as the song ended I cound not help tearing. It's so touching. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is an absolute Masterpiece. I do have all Dream Theater's albums... and I do agree with you about how their style has changed, but you can't pretend a dynamic band like Dream Theater to keep on their way to make music on forever.
Sorry about my english.
GuitarStrings
Member
Member
Posts: 795
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 1:05 pm

hush wrote:I may open up a can of worms here, but I'd compare the situation to Dream Theater's last two albums, "Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence" and "Metropolis 2000: Scenes From a Memory".

Now concept albums can be a great thing, if you embrace the concept, but if you do not, you're completely alienated.

"SDOIT" doesn't engage me at all and "SFAM" did little to draw me in (I appreciate it more as a novelty than anything else). Even though both have some interesting moments, the mood is... well I guess "uncomfortable" is the only descriptive I can come up with (since I can't go as far as "inexistent"), as opposed to "adventurous", "comforting", etc. Actually, I think "motionless" would be more approriate. I can appreciate that the themes of the two albums might lend such an odd mood but, to me, the approach was more refined and consistent (currently too fragmented) in "A Change of Seasons" and "A Mind Beside Itself", etc.
Are you human or what??? I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH YOU about what you said about 6 Degrees of Inner Turbulence! Right yesterday I've listened to that 42 epic song for 4 times in a row and never got bored!!! It's such a great piece if music with so many highlights... as the song ended I cound not help tearing. It's so touching. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is an absolute Masterpiece. I do have all Dream Theater's albums... and I do agree with you about how their style has changed, but you can't pretend a dynamic band like Dream Theater to keep on their way to make music on forever.
Sorry about my english.
GuitarStrings
Member
Member
Posts: 795
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 1:05 pm

hush wrote:I may open up a can of worms here, but I'd compare the situation to Dream Theater's last two albums, "Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence" and "Metropolis 2000: Scenes From a Memory".

Now concept albums can be a great thing, if you embrace the concept, but if you do not, you're completely alienated.

"SDOIT" doesn't engage me at all and "SFAM" did little to draw me in (I appreciate it more as a novelty than anything else). Even though both have some interesting moments, the mood is... well I guess "uncomfortable" is the only descriptive I can come up with (since I can't go as far as "inexistent"), as opposed to "adventurous", "comforting", etc. Actually, I think "motionless" would be more approriate. I can appreciate that the themes of the two albums might lend such an odd mood but, to me, the approach was more refined and consistent (currently too fragmented) in "A Change of Seasons" and "A Mind Beside Itself", etc.
Are you human or what??? I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH YOU about what you said about 6 Degrees of Inner Turbulence! Right yesterday I've listened to that 42 epic song for 4 times in a row and never got bored!!! It's such a great piece if music with so many highlights... as the song ended I cound not help tearing. It's so touching. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is an absolute Masterpiece. I do have all Dream Theater's albums... and I do agree with you about how their style has changed, but you can't pretend a dynamic band like Dream Theater to keep on their way to make music on forever.
Sorry about my english.
guyzif
Member
Member
Posts: 764
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 1:58 am

on the subject of dream theatre, i agree wiv u, moore definatly is the best keyboard player they had, surrounded is one of my all time favourite songs. on the subject of the last 2 albums, i think there great but im still trying to figure them out, SFAM, the music for me is amazing but im still not getting the story, mabe im missing the point. :?

on the subject at hand, lyd calm down my man before you burst somthing. i do agree with you though, SBM is definatly my worst satch album. in general i agree wiv wot u r sayin but CALM IT KERMIT, so he does a few albums whish are not up to your standards, god knows I agree with you man, his earlyer stuff rules.
The Prez
Member
Member
Posts: 1238
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 11:19 am

"Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence" is probably their most "develpoed" album
hush
Member
Member
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 1:55 pm

GuitarStrings wrote:Are you human or what???
:D I love that one. Straight and to the point.
GuitarStrings wrote:I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH YOU about what you said about 6 Degrees of Inner Turbulence! Right yesterday I've listened to that 42 epic song for 4 times in a row and never got bored!!! It's such a great piece if music with so many highlights... as the song ended I cound not help tearing. It's so touching. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is an absolute Masterpiece.
I'm glad you enjoy it.

I hope that in time it will get to me. I'd hate to lose interest in DT altogether since they have given me so much. Also, they are part of a rare breed that pushes the envelope and redefine the boundaries of music. We must support these artists.

On a side note, it would be interesting to see if there was a shift in their fan base from SFAM onward. What types of fans were lost and were they substituted by fans coming from more of a traditional prog. rock fan base?

To be honest, I listened to it maybe two or three times when it came out and then it sat on a shelf for about a year before I picked it up again. I listened to the first disc last night (hours after writing this "review") and may have to "adjust" my "critique". To be fair, I'd have to do a song by song/segment to segment breakdown of what I like and do not like about it and this is not the place. Perhaps in its own thread... or a dedicated review on a future website. I can't fully convey my impressions on a fragmented and limited medium such as this forum.
GuitarStrings wrote:I do have all Dream Theater's albums... and I do agree with you about how their style has changed, but you can't pretend a dynamic band like Dream Theater to keep on their way to make music on forever.
I agree in principle. You shouldn't stop experimenting, but if you have a winning formula (tones, melodies, rhythms, etc) shouldn't you keep working off that core? At least for a little while. An interesting question. The same applies for Joe with "Crystal Planet".

guyzif, nice to see someone who somewhat relates...
guyzif wrote: on the subject of dream theatre, i agree wiv u, moore definatly is the best keyboard player they had, surrounded is one of my all time favourite songs.
Amen to that. Where are the "Space-Dye Vest" we fall back on on a sombre rainy day (too melodramatic :( ?).

I enjoyed Derek's stay as well. He definitely brought something interesting to the sonic landscape of Dream Theater in "FII" though I must admit it did border on "commercial" at times.
guyzif wrote: on the subject of the last 2 albums, i think there great but im still trying to figure them out, SFAM, the music for me is amazing but im still not getting the story, mabe im missing the point.
In some respects, I feel the same way. I can appreciate the music intellectually, but emotionally, it doesn't move me and that prevents me from listening to them over and over like the previous albums. Maybe it's the concept album altogheter that's an issue. I'm not the type to say "Hey, let's pop in this story or this sonic movie" when I get into my car for example.

I also feel they are less melody driven than previous albums and more rhythmically driven.

There's a thread on the DT.net forum on 6DOIT, and one post mentions the album was put together in a few weeks "à la" LTE. Maybe they were more meticulous with their previous work.

I don't know, I guess I'm just trying to make some sense out of and some connection to their latest work somehow...

The same general feeling of alienation applies to Joe's last two releases...

I forgot to mention the live version of Borg Sex on Live in San Francisco DVD also changed my appreciation of the song.

The Prez,
"Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence" is probably their most "develpoed" album
How so? Can you elaborate?

--------------------
In Vai we trust...
The Prez
Member
Member
Posts: 1238
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 11:19 am

Give the guy a break! We all have our up's and downs, everyone has a low period album. It can't be s bad as St Anger. Look, Lydian may like him using the same tone as before, but that would get so boring.
anuj
Member
Member
Posts: 570
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2003 12:03 am

go see him live this tour. his tone is to die for.

~A
The Prez
Member
Member
Posts: 1238
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 11:19 am

Lydian, check out the G3 tour, it might change your mind.
Artanis I
Member
Member
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2003 5:24 pm

I think that Strange Beautiful Music is a great album. I have all of Joe's CDs, this one being the most recent. My favourites are:

NOTE, Surfing, Joe Satriani, Crystal Planet, SBM.

What I like about the latest one is that it is a cross between the 95 and 98 albums. As a drummer, one thing I like about SBM is the fact the drums are less boom-chish-boom-chish, however there seems to be a little too much "air" in it. (For that level of complexity.) The bass goes back to CP and The Extremist, (good good) and the addition of extra guitar tracks adds something (not sure what, but it's good) to the mix.

I love to listen to Satch & Vai, but my friends don't. I like the music they listen to too, and it's good to hear Joe isn't stuck in the 80s.

Joe's studio has pictures of Rage Against the Machine, Korn/Slipknot (I forget which), etc on the walls...and he mentioned @ when SBM came out he'd been into Tool's Lateralus...so no, he's not a 40 something trying to get "hip" (80s word) with the teenyboppers. He's a modern man trying to release modern music to a split modern/80s fanbase.

Every album he releases he tries to do something new. I like the dark warm tone that comes from this album, and I look forward to the new one coming out next year.

On the bad side, I thought the song production sounded a bit rushed (I think it was).
Post Reply