Vai Owned by Classical Guitarist

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Slygroove
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Vai Owned by Classical Guitarist

#1 Post by Slygroove » Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:42 pm

OK, maybe not. :)

But this recording of Paganini's 5th (the piece from which eugene's trick bag was derived) leaves me speachless. Classical guitarist Eliot Fisk fingerpicks Paganini's 5th at more than twice the speed that Vai plays it.

It's track number 5. The "Eugene's trick bag" riff begins about half way through the track.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... 57-8477702
Last edited by Slygroove on Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

amokalex
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#2 Post by amokalex » Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:04 am

Schooling from several Classic guitar teachers is a great possibility!?! :?

The thing that I would imagine, (Mike,.....maybe you can help us on this one?) depending on what type of degree Steve got attending Boston? It could have been a Project for one of his Majors for the degree?(aside from his Honorable Doctors)

I think a legitamate question would be, is Why did Steve attend the Music School in Boston, when he comes from the Island, and did not decide to go to Juliard?

My dad studied in Leningrad just as the War started and then Juliard. He was a Jazz/Classic Accordian player.

I don`t know if any of these Musicians are familiar? maybe Steve knows them?

Angelo di Pippo
Charles Magnantei
Art Van Damm

I guess I can thank him for getting me into this Music stuff!?! :wink:

The only thing I couldn`t have was a leather fringed jacket back in the early 70`s. My mom didn`t want me to look like a Hippy! :roll:


amokout! :twisted:

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Re: Vai Owned by Classical Guitarist

#3 Post by Shy Boy » Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:29 pm

Slygroove wrote:Classical guitarist Eliot Fisk fingerpicks Paganini's 5th at more than twice the speed that Vai plays it.
I love Fisk. I have a bunch of his CD's, and I even saw him live for the first time last year.

It's funny you should mention Fisk finger-picking Paganini's 5th faster than Vai played E.T.B. for the movie Crossroads, because the Steve’s playing was actually sped up at times!

That piece was the most popular thing about Crossroads, but I always thought it was stupid that Martone won the duel against Jack Butler (Vai’s character) by resorting to playing a canned classical piece, instead of using his newfound knowledge of the blues to overcome (which was the whole point of the damn movie).

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Re: Vai Owned by Classical Guitarist

#4 Post by Cleggy » Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:42 pm

Shy Boy wrote: That piece was the most popular thing about Crossroads, but I always thought it was stupid that Martone won the duel against Jack Butler (Vai’s character) by resorting to playing a canned classical piece, instead of using his newfound knowledge of the blues to overcome (which was the whole point of the damn movie).
You know you have raised a very good point.

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Re: Vai Owned by Classical Guitarist

#5 Post by Nikkoe » Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:48 pm

Cleggy2005 wrote:
Shy Boy wrote: That piece was the most popular thing about Crossroads, but I always thought it was stupid that Martone won the duel against Jack Butler (Vai’s character) by resorting to playing a canned classical piece, instead of using his newfound knowledge of the blues to overcome (which was the whole point of the damn movie).
You know you have raised a very good point.
Maybe it's something about : "As you advance in your knowledge, never forget where you have been before" ?

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#6 Post by xifr » Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:05 pm

amokalex wrote:Schooling from several Classic guitar teachers is a great possibility!?! :?
I think he meant schooled, as in owned, beaten, thrashed etc.

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#7 Post by Pi2plank » Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:29 pm

i dont think you could say Vai got owned because in the first place cause Vai's music & Eliot music are different (in a sense)..its like comparing apple & oranges...anyway i like Vai's version better cause..

-anything above 20NPS sounds like a blur to me..i dont get to enjoy music when the notes go this fast, at least in short bursts i may like it, but not when its always this fast

-i think it was an exaggeration when you said twice the speed Mr. Vai did..

-i got more use for music than making it a competition...of course there's american idol if you want competition...but when i listen to Vai, i listen to relax & enjoy myself, rather than bash how awful or untalented the other artists are & make it into a competition...

-i got long hair & play rock music so Eugene's trick bag is more appealing to me...

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#8 Post by xifr » Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:14 am

Pi2plank wrote:-anything above 20NPS sounds like a blur to me..i dont get to enjoy music when the notes go this fast, at least in short bursts i may like it, but not when its always this fast
Personally I find that fast playing is good as you no longer concentrate on the individual notes and listen to the patterns as a whole.

That is, if the guitarist is any good.

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#9 Post by davester1234 » Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:05 am

sometimes i too find that too fast can be irriating. Not that fisk is. Fast styles can irk me sometimes. Sometimes it sounds awesome though. Depends on the artistry that went behind it i guess. If its good its good!

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#10 Post by KGNOKODOMO » Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:38 pm

WELL WELL WELL
talking about speed, there is no doubt that guy can play faster
but so what ??
i saw a video of vai explaining the song "freak show excess"process of creation
where he explains that anyone can rip the notes and make fast chops ans so on!!!
but as you see the phrasing he develops is where you can realize hoy music is not scales or sequences up and down the neck, that is what sets him apart from mere fast players!!!!
so could this classical musician create even a single quality phrase of his own?? as steve does!!! that is the question!!

by the way you can find the video on google video
i hope it is not illegal to say this on the forum!!

regards!!

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Re: Vai Owned by Classical Guitarist

#11 Post by Slygroove » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:47 pm

Shy Boy wrote:
Slygroove wrote:Classical guitarist Eliot Fisk fingerpicks Paganini's 5th at more than twice the speed that Vai plays it.
I love Fisk. I have a bunch of his CD's, and I even saw him live for the first time last year.

It's funny you should mention Fisk finger-picking Paganini's 5th faster than Vai played E.T.B. for the movie Crossroads, because the Steve’s playing was actually sped up at times!

I've heard that Steve's playing was sped up, but I'm not sure if this is just a baseless internet rumor, of it's been confirmed. Can anyone verify this?

Congradulations on seeing Fisk perform live. It must have been quite an experience.
That piece was the most popular thing about Crossroads, but I always thought it was stupid that Martone won the duel against Jack Butler (Vai’s character) by resorting to playing a canned classical piece, instead of using his newfound knowledge of the blues to overcome (which was the whole point of the damn movie).
I've had the same thought myself. But I think it was Jack's ego that caused him to lose, not Eugene's classical piece. But I don't look for movies to be realistic or to have points or morals. The duel was dramatic and entertaining, which is enough for me :)

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#12 Post by cioran » Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:27 pm

KGNOKODOMO wrote:WELL WELL WELL
talking about speed, there is no doubt that guy can play faster
but so what ??
i saw a video of vai explaining the song "freak show excess"process of creation
where he explains that anyone can rip the notes and make fast chops ans so on!!!
but as you see the phrasing he develops is where you can realize hoy music is not scales or sequences up and down the neck, that is what sets him apart from mere fast players!!!!
so could this classical musician create even a single quality phrase of his own?? as steve does!!! that is the question!!

by the way you can find the video on google video
i hope it is not illegal to say this on the forum!!

regards!!
I agree that Steve's dedication to quality material is one of his best traits. He finds music that is worthwhile and d*mn well keeps working until he's got it down. What you're missing is that Fisk does the same. Paganini intended his caprices to be a mix of melody and structure - the cascades of notes fill a very definate function. If you'll listen again you will find that Fisk plays the piece with grace and fluent phrasing and dynamics - just as Paganini did when performing the music himself.
This music did have an element of showmanship in it, as was the fashion at the time. But if you look at them it's clear that a lot of thought and compositional skill went into them - making them something different entirely from the mindless shredding we have too much of today.
As I've said before - Steve will be remembered as long as people play the electric guitar beacause his music has merit. The same holds true of Paganini. All the best.

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#13 Post by s_t_e_v_e_n_s_i_r_o_v_a_i » Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:08 am

KGNOKODOMO wrote:WELL WELL WELL
talking about speed, there is no doubt that guy can play faster
but so what ??
i saw a video of vai explaining the song "freak show excess"process of creation
where he explains that anyone can rip the notes and make fast chops ans so on!!!
but as you see the phrasing he develops is where you can realize hoy music is not scales or sequences up and down the neck, that is what sets him apart from mere fast players!!!!
so could this classical musician create even a single quality phrase of his own?? as steve does!!! that is the question!!

by the way you can find the video on google video
i hope it is not illegal to say this on the forum!!

regards!!
ur my hero!!
i concurr with this guy, I can play 1 note over an hour and REALLY fast, ittl sound like bullshit, what steve does is MUCH more emotionally than this guy with his paganini, trust me I like it but I love steve even more due to his uniqueness

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#14 Post by Slygroove » Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:30 pm

Pi2plank wrote:i dont think you could say Vai got owned because in the first place cause Vai's music & Eliot music are different (in a sense)..its like comparing apple & oranges...anyway i like Vai's version better cause..
Pi2, I find your arguments confusing because you begin by saying that the two pieces can't be compared, but you dedicate your post to comparing them.
Pi2plank wrote:-anything above 20NPS sounds like a blur to me..i dont get to enjoy music when the notes go this fast, at least in short bursts i may like it, but not when its always this fast
Music is more than the notes that go into it. It's the patterns that the notes form that make the music meaningful. A blur isn't necessarily undesirable, in fact, sometimes it is the desired effect. One of the most beautiful pieces is "Recuerdos de la Alhambra." I have a recording of frederick Noad playing this piece which is stunningly emotional and alot smoother, but I couldn't find a copy online. Here's a different recording -- track 4, CD 1 -- if you like relaxing music, as you said in your post, you’ll love this.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000002RTR

This is made by one guitar player plucking the melody arpeggios with the thumb and tremoloing with the index and middle and ring fingers at the same time.
-i got more use for music than making it a competition...of course there's american idol if you want competition...but when i listen to Vai, i listen to relax & enjoy myself, rather than bash how awful or untalented the other artists are & make it into a competition...
I of course agree with you that music is so much more than just a competition. But it's a bit weird that you should say this about a piece that was designed for a guitar competition, and has become well known in the shred guitar community for the technical prowess required to play it. Most people react to Vai's playing in Eugene's trick bag with a "Holy shit, that's fast!" rather than a "My god, that's beautiful!" Most of these people are impressed because they have a severely limited exposure to music, and the diversity of skilled musicians.

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#15 Post by MR4Y » Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:26 pm

KGNOKODOMO wrote:WELL WELL WELL
talking about speed, there is no doubt that guy can play faster
but so what ??
i saw a video of vai explaining the song "freak show excess"process of creation
where he explains that anyone can rip the notes and make fast chops ans so on!!!
but as you see the phrasing he develops is where you can realize hoy music is not scales or sequences up and down the neck, that is what sets him apart from mere fast players!!!!
so could this classical musician create even a single quality phrase of his own?? as steve does!!! that is the question!!

by the way you can find the video on google video
i hope it is not illegal to say this on the forum!!

regards!!
and don't forget that vai are speaking things DURING that fast chop :mrgreen:

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