Dont hate me for this

For discussion of all general music topics, Favored Nations artists, Vai-related musicians and all other artists and bands.
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OU812Manny
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#16 Post by OU812Manny » Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:55 am

Cachophany rules. Jason Becker and Marty Freidman are both insanely great players. Now ,here is something that might blow your minds. I took FTLOG and played it for my guitar teacher who is a Jazz, Fusion guy and he didn't know it was Steve Vai. he didn't think it was that great. He picked up two major mistakes where SV actually misses the strings and makes a some pretty big mistakes. Then he said at one of the faster shred parts that SV is playing out of key and not using the right scale. This guy has a masters in music and knows his stuff. He mentioned something about SV using a major 6th instead of a flatted 6th on the fast parts. I am just learning theory so I don't know if I said it right, but I did here those two mistakes.

Gulliver
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#17 Post by Gulliver » Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:28 am

Arkka wrote:
Gulliver wrote:Cacaphony is metal for kids.
If this is the case, I hope I'll never grow up.

Please don't bash my idols without decent arguments.
Hey Arkka, cool down dude! :o

What arguments can I have besides that I don't like neo-classical metal in general? I didn't say "they can't play", right? I highly respect such virtuosos as Becker and Freidman, I just think that Vai's stuff is superior in terms of compositional thinking. That's all. :)

Gulliver
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#18 Post by Gulliver » Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:37 am

OU812Manny wrote: I took FTLOG and played it for my guitar teacher who is a Jazz, Fusion guy and he didn't know it was Steve Vai. he didn't think it was that great. He picked up two major mistakes where SV actually misses the strings and makes a some pretty big mistakes.
Man, I feel sorry for your teacher. I really am! He might be a great guitar player and a nice guy, but he certainly is TOO MUCH into one style. Music is not just about Jazz and Fusion, man... It's about an artistic expression! I promise to listen to FTLOG specifically in order to pick up those "two major mistakes"... Then I'll be back...

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#19 Post by treeduck » Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:49 pm

Big Bad Bill wrote:I wonder if what you like is the 'bluesiness' of the other players you mention? Steve avoids those sort of harmonies/melodies and personally I find that really fresh.
Oh Steve has plenty of blues in his stuff BBB. I think you should try listening to some blues yourself...

Try...

Robben Ford and the Blue Line
Scott Henderson - Dog Party
Robben Ford - A Handful of Blues
Scott Henderson - Live

I'm hoping you'll be calling yourself Big Bad Blues after that...

:D

Henrique Henriques
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Re: Dont hate me for this

#20 Post by Henrique Henriques » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:15 pm

xxxYNGWIExxx wrote:well i just got done listening to some vai cds and i must say ....... I HATED THEM. Well umm heres what happed i got a hold of some cds (mostly vai some cacophony, jason becker, and some joe satriani.) ive always loved steve vai as a guitarist and i still do but i dont like his music .........At all. Since like 2 days ago ive only heard tender surrender, for the love of god, whipering a prayer and maybe one or two others bacically his best stuff. I assumed that the stuff i was listening to was what his music was like but after lisening to most of his cds just a while ago i must say i really didient like any of it. I still like steve vai and think hes a great guitar player but i think his music is boring. But after lisening to cacophony i LOVE marty friedman and jason becker now. i think there music is so cool way better then vai and i dont want to insult any one but i just think as far as instrumental songs go i think jason becker and marty freidman are the best does any eles agree with me. some songs from cacophony i like are Black cat - minus the vocals
Go off
speed metal symphony
images
desert island- minus the vocals
black stallion
Concerto

Jason becker
Altitudes
air
mabels fatel fable
end of the beginnng
serrana

Now i belive these are some of the greatest song ever any one else agree?
XXXYngwieXXX, don't take this in a bad way. But I just have to ask.
How old are you?

(Glad you liked Marty's and Jason's old work)

Arkka
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#21 Post by Arkka » Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:07 pm

OU812Manny wrote:Then he said at one of the faster shred parts that SV is playing out of key and not using the right scale.
Had to comment just to point out the obvious: Right scale? No such thing in modern music. I like some players and composers who do stuff strictly by the book though. It's an art form all by itself.
Gulliver wrote:What arguments can I have besides that I don't like neo-classical metal in general? I didn't say "they can't play", right? I highly respect such virtuosos as Becker and Freidman, I just think that Vai's stuff is superior in terms of compositional thinking. That's all. :)
Well this was ten times better post than the previous. You see I've become a real post patrol :lol:

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#22 Post by Gastric Sumo » Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:31 pm

"he didn't think it was that great. He picked up two major mistakes where SV actually misses the strings and makes a some pretty big mistakes. Then he said at one of the faster shred parts that SV is playing out of key and not using the right scale."


That's all fine and dandy, but that's just an opinion just like everybody's here. It's also like comparing Picasso to Rembrant.

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#23 Post by acoates » Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:22 am

OU812Manny wrote:Now ,here is something that might blow your minds. I took FTLOG and played it for my guitar teacher who is a Jazz, Fusion guy and he didn't know it was Steve Vai. he didn't think it was that great. He picked up two major mistakes where SV actually misses the strings and makes a some pretty big mistakes. Then he said at one of the faster shred parts that SV is playing out of key and not using the right scale. This guy has a masters in music and knows his stuff. He mentioned something about SV using a major 6th instead of a flatted 6th on the fast parts. I am just learning theory so I don't know if I said it right, but I did here those two mistakes.
Here is something that might blow your mind, which one out of Steve and your teacher is one of the most famous guitarists in the world who has spent his life going on tour and making the music he and countless others love, given a degree from a prestigious music university without even finishing the course due to his massive musical achievements, and which is the unheard of guitar teacher with a masters in music no less teaching jazz fusion and slagging off another musician to someone who can't even understand the theory he justifies it by. And who is the guy who belives his teacher just because he says it's so. You hear it because he tells you it's there, not because it's necessarily an actual mistake. The shredding bit I think you are refering to is not an incorrect scale, just an unusual one, but it works. What happened to minor and diminished terminology, did they run away while I wasn't around? [/rant]

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#24 Post by Gulliver » Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:36 am

Arkka wrote: [
Well this was ten times better post than the previous. You see I've become a real post patrol :lol:
Cheers! :D

...Now I must to listen to FtLoG again...
Last edited by Gulliver on Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

if6was9
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#25 Post by if6was9 » Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:37 am

Arkka wrote:
if6was9 wrote:Well, you're not the first person that prefers Racer X, Cacophony, etc. over Steve's music ... Many 'shredders' don't seem to get his music, but well, i guess one day they will get tired of that linear type of playing and they will aprecciate more complex players.
Yeah, maybe one day we'll all be cured. I like Cacophony and Friedman is like god to me. I assume Vai likes Friedman's 'linear type of playing' since "Music For Speeding" was released on Favored Nations. But maybe Steve grows out of it one day and begin to appreciate more complex players.
You got me wrong, i didn't point my finger at Marty Friedman when i said linear type of playing. The guy is amazing, i have most of his work and he's a very cool player wich has that exotic vibe that makes him unique. My whole point was that some of the shredders don't have a strong vision and their music is predictible and to my taste it doesn't do much. I won't go into further arguments, because everyone has their preferences and i didn't want to sound like an ass.

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#26 Post by Gulliver » Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:42 am

Well, I listened to FTLOG again, and it just reminded me why I like Steve's playing so much! :D I can't claim that it's his best composition though, I just think he has a lot of much better compositions (from pure compositional point of view), but this piece is built on the guitar improvisation and Steve does it brilliantly. He reaches culminations just in the right places and even if he "misses the strings" a couple of times in the process (I wasn't able to detect this because of the sheer power and ferocity of his playing) this only adds to the end result, which is an awesome orgasmic apocalypse. :lol:

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#27 Post by Leanne_777 » Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:36 am

My motto is "to each his own" and I respect everyone's opinion but I really don't see the point of coming on a board to try to rile fans up.

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#28 Post by Geetar Beest » Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:16 am

OU812Manny wrote:Cachophany rules. Jason Becker and Marty Freidman are both insanely great players. Now ,here is something that might blow your minds. I took FTLOG and played it for my guitar teacher who is a Jazz, Fusion guy and he didn't know it was Steve Vai. he didn't think it was that great. He picked up two major mistakes where SV actually misses the strings and makes a some pretty big mistakes. Then he said at one of the faster shred parts that SV is playing out of key and not using the right scale. This guy has a masters in music and knows his stuff. He mentioned something about SV using a major 6th instead of a flatted 6th on the fast parts. I am just learning theory so I don't know if I said it right, but I did here those two mistakes.
Given his critisisms he doesn't sound a particuarly good jazz/fusion player (or teacher for that matter).

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#29 Post by *theanimal*05 » Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:57 pm

PEOPLE PEOPLE!

Did you ever consider that steve is playing these notes "out of key" to create tension? This part of the song is the big buildup and to create melodic tension, vai is adding notes to the scale to stress and emphasise that the last 2 minutes of song have been building up to the big finish!

And whats this shit about steve skipping strings or some shit.

Vai is a complete master of his world. Even if he did, he would have done it for a reason.

Open your eyes and realise that Vai wouldnt spend 10 to 15 hours a day in his bedroom practising his arse off to screw up on his most well known song!

Tobi

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#30 Post by xifr » Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:24 am

OU812Manny wrote:Cachophany rules. Jason Becker and Marty Freidman are both insanely great players. Now ,here is something that might blow your minds. I took FTLOG and played it for my guitar teacher who is a Jazz, Fusion guy and he didn't know it was Steve Vai. he didn't think it was that great. He picked up two major mistakes where SV actually misses the strings and makes a some pretty big mistakes. Then he said at one of the faster shred parts that SV is playing out of key and not using the right scale. This guy has a masters in music and knows his stuff. He mentioned something about SV using a major 6th instead of a flatted 6th on the fast parts. I am just learning theory so I don't know if I said it right, but I did here those two mistakes.
Seriously, that's just nit picking. When you look at a piece of music, you have to look at it as a whole.

Theory is supposed to help musicians create melody, not stifle them in order to create something 'perfect.'

theanimal's suggestion is also a valid one. Steve has done so much theory I doubt he would have trouble with something as playing in a key. Something like that would've probably been intentional. It deosn't need to follow theory if it sounds nice ;) .

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