Downloading and p2p

For discussion of all general music topics, Favored Nations artists, Vai-related musicians and all other artists and bands.
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Naffis-kun
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I think there hasn't been made an official thread about this topic so I'll make one now.
Downloading music is an interesting subject. Almost every user of the internet has come into contact with it.

So.. do you download copyrighted music without the musician's permission?
Or do you share it?
You see, in Finland it's legal to download movies and music but SHARING makes it illegal. In the USA it may be different. I think even downloading is illegal there.

It's a moral question, too.
But I can't compare downloading music and movies from the net to buying it from the local store because the laws vary in different countries (like I said, you can download as much as you want in Finland). There are things called leecher modes that disable uploading/sharing of the file. So using p2p programs that way is legal here.
But I think they're going to change the law soon.

I always prefer buying stuff from the store to downloading it. That's because I'm a fan and a collector. I want the Official stuff. Not crappy pirate copies.

Share your thoughts. I'd like to hear them.
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guyver_dio
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I live in Australia but I think America's laws are similar to ours on this topic and it is illegal to download and share copywrited content. But there are a few sites now that will limit you to download say 1 song of each album. The idea behind this is, if you like that track then you might be more inclined to purchase the album.

Personally I think streaming music and video is a great way to go now that adsl and faster internet connection are available. With streaming, your allowed to view and hear the content but it won't be saved on your computer.

Being a guitarist and seeing that my type of music is hard to find in Australia, I don't really want to wait for an imported album or DVD to arrive so this is where I find downloading a simple and quick solution. But if I download something and really like it, I like to order it. There's simply nothing better then having the real album or DVD to add to your collection.
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Naffis-kun
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But there are a few sites now that will limit you to download say 1 song of each album. The idea behind this is, if you like that track then you might be more inclined to purchase the album.
Yeah.. bands and artists do this themselves, too.
For example, from www.strappingyounglad.com you can download one track from each album.
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CymbalSplittingSkinbasher
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I'd much rather have 30 second samples of every song on a record, instead of one full song.
Picabo
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CymbalSplittingSkinbasher wrote:I'd much rather have 30 second samples of every song on a record, instead of one full song.
Me too! :)
sonny sixshooter
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I hate 30 second samples! They are the worst! There are a few artists out there, who give away several free songs whenever they make a new album. Now that is cool! Then I can decide whether I want to buy it or not.
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CymbalSplittingSkinbasher
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I absolutely have no problem whatsover listening to 30 sec. samples to help me determine if a particular album is worth a purchase. I don't know about you, but I'm not paying $16 for something that sucks, period! :wink:
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Instrumentalrockrocks
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CymbalSplittingSkinbasher wrote:I absolutely have no problem whatsover listening to 30 sec. samples to help me determine if a particular album is worth a purchase. I don't know about you, but I'm not paying $16 for something that sucks, period! :wink:
Finally someone who's opinion makes sence!
I Agree.


Shred On :guitar
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Naffis-kun
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Let's stay in the topic, ok?
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CymbalSplittingSkinbasher
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As for p2p, I don't see what the problem is. Some of us aren't made out of money, & some music is very, very difficult to obtain, & that's where, I feel, p2p serves a good purpose. Most of us will go buy something we like, even after we get it from someone that is SHARING it with others in a p2p format. Most of us want the real deal, & will spend the cash on it even after getting a burned copy somewhere.

Speaking for myself, I've purchased, & continue to purchase, a good amount of music after obtaining it from file sharers. Now if I listen to something that I think sucks, I'm not buying it, & I feel fortunate to have been able to listen to it first, & now I can use that same cash to purchase music I deem worthy of a purchase, simple as that. I support the artists I like in more ways than one. I go to their concerts, buy their shirts, their cd's, posters etc...so the music industry & artists I support, get their share of cash from me, & have since 1976.

I own so much music that I've bought since 1976 it would make your head spin. I've spent a lot of cash on music over the years & I continue to purchase music that I can afford. For me, it's all about affordability & accessibility. I don't have a credit card, so e-bay or any other credit card purchases are out of the equation for me.

You could live to be 100 yrs. old & still never get to hear a great abundance of music that you'd like to, either because of the accessibility of it, &/or whether it's affordabe or not. I think p2p is a good avenue for both the artists & their fans.

Imo, the real problem is HUGE, corporate, crybaby record labels & the like. If we get rid of them, I think things would be much better. Why do you think a lot of artists are starting their own labels? They know how bad it sucks to deal with those people, that's why! Smaller, independent, & even artist(s) owned companies should be the norm.

I'm a musician/songwriter myself, & I've got no problem with someone listening to my music BEFORE they purchase it. I feel that if the artist knows that people will have access to their music before they actually buy it, it puts more pressure on the artist to release quality music instead of an album full of filler. Who wants to pay $12-20 for a bunch of crap? Not me. Unless you've got money to burn, you shouldn't either.
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CymbalSplittingSkinbasher
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With all of the members on here, I find it hard to believe that more of you don't feel like expressing your thoughts on this subject. :?: All I'm hearing are crickets! :lol:
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Jeroen
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CymbalSplittingSkinbasher wrote:Some of us aren't made out of money, & some music is very, very difficult to obtain,
Ok, I'll give my 2 cts...again.

I'm not made out of money, and Ferarri's are damn hard to find. Maybe I should just go over to Michael Bay's, and have him involuntarily share his 575m with me. ;)

Sorry, but this has been beaten to death over and over. If an artist wants you to preview his tunes, the methods are available and lot's of them have previews on their websites. But it is (and should be) the owners decision. If they don't have it, get of your bum and walk to a record store and pop in the CD before you buy. Downloading copyrighted material without permission is and remains iligal for a good reason. And all the reasons people bring forward in favor of sharing is founded in some kind of lazyness or "I don't care'' attitude. Several years ago, there was no p2p, and people had no problems then. Why do they suddenly have them now?

Besides, I find it highly suspicious that most people when asked only say something to the extend of "I'm only previewing it" and more of that, while the statistics show that 90% of the people who regulary download Mp3's, do so in such quantities that it would be simply impossible to buy it all. That constitutes to theft in my book. YMMV.,

Lastly, blaming the record companies is a good one. If you agree that some record comapnies are screwing the artists and the consumer, then you are hurting the artist double as hard by downloading.

For your enjoyment, here's Steve's view on this (near the bottom)
http://www.vai.com/FanForum/answers.html

:)

J.
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CymbalSplittingSkinbasher
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First of all, the Ferrari/Bay analogy is way off base. That's a rather expensive ride & Mr. Bay might be somewhat hard to get ahold of. I don't see the connection there.

Secondly, you know as well as I do that this whole music business industry is a big mess, & I'm not blaming it all on them, but imo, they're a HUGE part of the problem. Why have some artists & bands started their own labels? Oh, I forgot, it's because the major labels are so easy to work with & they give the artist 75% of the earnings, right? :roll: Do you think that greed by the labels might be a factor here? Hmmmm!

As for me, I don't have the "I don't care attitude," I care very much & if you seen my music collection of "legal" purchases, you'd probably crap yourself. Oh yeah, & all of my "legally purchased" concert ticket stubs, posters, t-shirts etc...I give a tremendous amount to the music industry, both in time & money, & have done so for almost 30 years. Not 3 years, 30 years.

I agree that another part of the problem is also those that don't ever support the bands & artists that they like, & they EXPECT EVERYTHING for free, without ever giving back in return. As long as you truly support the bands & artists you like, why is there a problem?

You know, we were talking about a guy like Robert Johnson on another thread, & I know that's a whole different era, but a guy like that would probably have sold his soul to the devil a second time to have the resources available to him that artists have today. RJ travelled more in his time than Lonnie Johnson, Charley Patton & Blind Lemon Jefferson COMBINED! And why? Because he wanted to SHARE his music with people, & I doubt if he ever became extremely wealthy from it.

I definitely contribute to helping my fav bands & artists earn a living & live the lifestyle(s) that they do, & if people like me have to suffer because of all of the people that don't support them & expect free handouts all across the board, that's not only very unfair, its a damn shame too, imo. Every single person that uses p2p formats is not a low-life, scum of the earth cockroach that never buys anything, quite the contrary I'd say.
Picabo
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CymbalSplittingSkinbasher wrote:With all of the members on here, I find it hard to believe that more of you don't feel like expressing your thoughts on this subject. :?: All I'm hearing are crickets! :lol:
It may be because we all know how Steve and the moderators feel about filesharing and we don't want to bother them. Here's the fact: most people with a computer at home download music from filesharing networks. I do it. But I always buy my favorite artists' music. And believe me, I have MANY favorite artists! :)

Looking at my music collection, I can tell you this: there's nobody on the face of this planet who's gonna make me feel like a scum of the earth cockroach that never buys anything! Well, at least not Steve Vai because I own all of his original CD's! :wink:
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CymbalSplittingSkinbasher
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I'm hoping that some of you don't find these statements to reflect your true feelings:

"If you don't purchase music, you therefore forfeit any rights that you may have to listen to that particular music."

"Music should only be listened to, &/or be in the possession of those that can afford to purchase it."

"If you can't afford to purchase a particular cd, then you don't deserve to to listen to that cd until you can afford to purchase it for yourself, and ONLY for yourself."
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