Where did Steve get the melody For the Love of God??

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Yozhik
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#76 Post by Yozhik » Fri May 04, 2007 10:49 am

interesting stuff. i forgot to mention that Carroll's didnt have legal permission to use there logo on that particular range of products, whereas they have permission to use it on other products.

p.s you cant beat the Irish spuds! (as long as theres no blight in them!)




Zeds.Ded,

I (most people) love spuds. The same Irish guy remembers having the spuds steamed with seaweed as delicious.

Have you tried it this way?

Have you ever eaten Belgium/Dutch frites with curry mayonaisse?

Really delish! (I am drooling now)

Yozhik

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resha
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#77 Post by resha » Fri May 04, 2007 10:54 am

Yozhik wrote:I searched online for a total of 92 Steve Vai copywrights for registered works and not one For The Love of God.

That's strange?



From P&W booklet:

"All song © 1990 SyVy Music/ASCAP. All rights reserved."

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#78 Post by seljer » Fri May 04, 2007 10:55 am

Yozhik wrote:
Jeroen,

I searched online for a total of 92 Steve Vai copywrights for registered works and not one For The Love of God.

That's strange?


7. Registration Number: PA-474-948
Title: For the love of God.
Note: Performed by Steve Vai.
In: Passion and warfare. mRelativity 8856-1037-2, c1990. 1 compact


disc
Claimant: Sy Vy Music
Created: 1989
Published: 14May90
Registered: 29May90
Author on © Application: music: Steve Vai.
Special Codes: 3/M/L

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#79 Post by slater » Fri May 04, 2007 10:59 am

That is an interesting similarity in Kung Fu. But as someone has sort of pointed out, I hear those similarities all the time. I don't think this one resonates anymore than others I have heard.

It seems I've read someplace that FTLOG was some sort of ode to Zappa, written in the same vein as Watermelon in Easter Hay or Black Napkins.

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#80 Post by Zeds.Ded » Fri May 04, 2007 11:30 am

haha no ive never tried that more into having them made with parsley sauce mixed through them, in the words of Colin Farrel "its F^ckin delish!"

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Re: Where did Steve get the melody For the Love of God??http://w

#81 Post by LydianAlchemist » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:02 am

I was viewing FTLOG on youtube, and I have actually heard of this issue before. I never gave it much thought until these several different people on youtube (I think 3 of them are the same person, they all log on and off at the same time.)
anyways, they keep spamming the comments section on FTLOG saying he stole/borrowed the Kung Fu theme to make this song, and he is lame for selling the new hand written framed scores to the song, and should pay all royalties to Jim Helms (the composer of the original kung fu score)

ANYWAYS after long and arduous reasoning and explaining I have safely concluded that they were trolls, and I felt as though I got rick roll'd by a hyena.

But during these descussions I came across some interesting facts while transcribing the two melodies.

Steves first 5 bars of FTLOG have 14 notes, 2 of which are grace/slide-in notes.

The Kung Fu melody has only 4 bars (Steve's first few notes are a slide in starting at the 3 count or so) and 10 notes.

The Kung Fu melody is actually written in C major, I could be wrong. (it resolves to a G note at the end of the phrase, and the phrase is just played differently overall)

Steve's is in E Phrygian (at least the part in question) or "minor" and resolves to an E note after the whole call and response phrase is completed.

As is (Em v.s C maj) there are NO shared notes (scale wise yes cause E phrygian is a mode of C major, but the notes that your ear is hears are similar are not even the same notes, only similar intervals)

So after modulating the Kung Fu one into D major, I saw that 8 notes are melodically similar.

Then I transcribed BOTH onto a tab/notational editor, and saw that with timing and such all matched to their unique melodies, they only have 4 notes in common. 22.22% similar.

But they are written in different Keys, and Key Colors? (one is major and one is minor).
so technically you could say they are 0% similar notational wise, and share just several intervals.

Hardly anything to take legal action over.

maybe no one even cares, as this thread is kind of old, but those are my findings.
This would not hold up well in court.

Cheers Everyone

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Re: Where did Steve get the melody For the Love of God??

#82 Post by lydian2000 » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:16 am

Thanx for your post LydAlchemist, that should set things straight for a while now.

I'm a big fan of fact-based, concise analysis.

:)

:peace

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Re: Where did Steve get the melody For the Love of God??

#83 Post by LydianAlchemist » Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:12 pm

Anytime!

I am glad somebody appreciates it :guitar :headbang :mrgreen:

I like your name too... lol

LYDIAN FOREVER.

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Re: Where did Steve get the melody For the Love of God??

#84 Post by Pif » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:01 pm

I missed that topic on its first run, obviously.

Well, whatever the similarities we can all hear (which are, IMO far less obvious than Spirit's Taurus Vs Stairway, for example), musically, the movement from E to F (and C Major to G Major) is central to the theme of FTLOG and I can't hear it in Kung-fu. Also, I don't want to imagine what David Carradine would have to with a guitar including a whammy bar and a handle. Brrrrr.

As for the intent, ie similarities being equal to plagiarism/stealing music, that's a whole different thing. Is it too much of a stretch to imagine a teenage Steve subconsciously associating a melody with spirituality (the series contained much less actual kung-fu than fortune cookie wisdom)? Not quite. Is it actually relevant? Not really. Is it kinda funny? You bet.

Regarding the legalities, I couldn't care less. I'm convinced that with a good (read tricky) enough lawyer you can pretty much get anything for any reason.

Still, the reason I'm writing tonight is there are to my knowledge two documented instances of Steve borrowing music without realizing it.

One is the reason Bangkok is separated from the Fire Garden Suite. Steve wrote the theme one night in the 80's while on tour, probably with Roth,and picked it up a decade later. Somewhere along the way of making Fire Garden an actual album, someone pointed out that the theme was actually a verbatim quote from, if I remember correctly, the band Chess - never heard of them, and never heard the original. Couldn't tell you where I read bout it, though, don't remember.

The second was pointed out by John Stix while interviewing Steve in 90-ish for "Guitar for the Practicing Musician", which I just re-read yesterday as I'm packing stuff. Funny, that. Here it goes:
John - On 'I Would Love To' you played a bit from the little chorus of 'Blue Wind', from Jeff Beck and Jan Hammer.
Steve - I have no idea what you're talking about.
John - You don't know that? From 'Blue Wind', it's on the Wired record.
Steve - I know that record. I know that song real well. It's the one that goes (sings). Oh yeah you're right. Is that what I do here? It's very close. Maybe that's where it came from, subconsciously, because I like that Beck song. Sorry Jeff.
John - Jan Hammer wrote it. He'll be after you.
Steve - Jan says 'Ouch'.
I didn't know Wired at that time - didn't really know much of the almighty Jeff Beck, in fact, poor, ignorant little 90-ish me, and I forgot about that. But the day I listened to Blue Wind, I remembered. It is pretty obvious.

On another Vai-related note, I listened a few days ago to Slip of the Tongue for the first time, and noted 3 examples of parts that I had already heard elsewhere, probably from some french crap 80's songs, I have not investigated the matter, and probably will not, unless our lives become too long instead of too short.

Yeah, well, we sometimes stumble upon the same musical ideas, and more often we quote, misquote and frankenstein these together. It sure did happen to Steve. Big deal. It happened to me, and if it didn't happen to you then maybe you're not making enough music.

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Re: Where did Steve get the melody For the Love of God??

#85 Post by LydianAlchemist » Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:07 pm

"Tender Surrender" and "Villanova Junction" as well.

It happens all the time.

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Re: Where did Steve get the melody For the Love of God??

#86 Post by Jeroen » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:52 am

Not the band Chess, but the musical Chess. It's the intro part to 'One night in Bankok', sung by Murray Head (though the radio version often lacks this intro part). It was written by the guys from ABBA and the lyrics were by Tim Rice.
Pif wrote: Somewhere along the way of making Fire Garden an actual album, someone pointed out that the theme was actually a verbatim quote from, if I remember correctly, the band Chess - never heard of them, and never heard the original. Couldn't tell you where I read bout it, though, don't remember.

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Re: Where did Steve get the melody For the Love of God??http

#87 Post by Patill » Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:46 am

LydianAlchemist wrote:
Steves first 5 bars of FTLOG have 14 notes, 2 of which are grace/slide-in notes.

The Kung Fu melody has only 4 bars (Steve's first few notes are a slide in starting at the 3 count or so) and 10 notes.
just because Steve slides the notes or has put several notes or bars around the melody doesn´t mean he hasn´t taken this Kung Fu melody as a solid base for a song.
LydianAlchemist wrote: As is (Em v.s C maj) there are NO shared notes (scale wise yes cause E phrygian is a mode of C major, but the notes that your ear is hears are similar are not even the same notes, only similar intervals)

So after modulating the Kung Fu one into D major, I saw that 8 notes are melodically similar.
so your argument is, that these melodies are in diffrent keys and that you had to match their keys to get similar notes? That sound a lot like I could take a chartbreaker and put it a halfstep up in ProTools and you would say there´s no similarity. I´d be a billionaire right now...

I´m actually not very much into that topic, but I don´t get your arguments at all :?.


What I know is, that I think it sounds very similar. But saying he stole it may be too much, since everybody (and so does Steve) takes pieces of other musicians from time to time. And there´s nothing bad about it.

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Re: Where did Steve get the melody For the Love of God??

#88 Post by Pif » Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:35 am

Jeroen wrote:Not the band Chess, but the musical Chess. It's the intro part to 'One night in Bankok', sung by Murray Head (though the radio version often lacks this intro part). It was written by the guys from ABBA and the lyrics were by Tim Rice.
Pif wrote: Somewhere along the way of making Fire Garden an actual album, someone pointed out that the theme was actually a verbatim quote from, if I remember correctly, the band Chess - never heard of them, and never heard the original. Couldn't tell you where I read bout it, though, don't remember.
And I was too lazy to check the credits in the booklet anyway. Thanks for the details. Murray Head is one degree away from Steve Vai, and so is ABBA. OK. And "Emmanuelle" from Robert Fripp. These things happen.

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Re: Where did Steve get the melody For the Love of God??

#89 Post by Reno » Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:51 am

eh i hate those morons that say he copy a song when they here 2-3 note that sounds the same

those ppl should be shot in the head twice

everyone needs inspiration, so does steve, even if he did "copy" it takes a fkn genius to create love of god from that them

and it takes a fkn alien to play it like he did

do not disrespect his music, hes making a history

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Re: Where did Steve get the melody For the Love of God??

#90 Post by Patill » Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:11 am

Reno wrote:eh i hate those morons that say he copy a song when they here 2-3 note that sounds the same

those ppl should be shot in the head twice

I don´t think so, Tim!


^^

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