Spirtuality Views of Vai??

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boswell
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#106 Post by boswell » Fri May 04, 2007 1:16 am

:lol:

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Big Bad Bill
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#107 Post by Big Bad Bill » Fri May 04, 2007 2:21 am

I think this thread is still OK, Jonesy038.

As I've said somewhere else ( I think) nobody bats an eyelid if we question government policy, environmental issues, scientific ideas, the type of music we like, but spiritual beliefs seem to be completely taboo and beyond question at the risk of causing offence or anger. We pussy foot around them and dare not address central issues directly for fear of....well I'm not sure. I simply believe that spiritual matters should be open to scrutiny just as other topics are. There's nothing to fear in doing so if a person's beliefs are sound and strong. However, I suspect that people don;t like this type of dissection because the end conclusion can only steer them to the conclusion that there is nobody watching over them, judging their actions and offering a nice place after we die! People don't like that idea as it makes them feel small and insignificant. Well, we are!

There was an exceptionally good drama on ITV a few years ago (yes Independent Trailertrash Vision!) called 'Second Coming'. It stared Christopher Eccleston and was written by Russell T Davis-I guess that's where Davis found his new Dr Who!! The Messiah returns to Manchester as a video shop assistant, makes himself known to the world with the odd miracle and begins his search for the Final Gospel and asks people to send him what they think it should be before the world ends in a few weeks! Humanity, in their usual stupid way begins fighting, rioting, killing, racial and religious hatred etc highlighting they've learned nothing since his last coming! He can find no suitable/correct gospel, but it is his ex-girlfriend and indeed himself who realises there is only one answer to the filthiness of humanity. In order to focus their minds and hence actions on the here and now they should be given only one chance at getting it right. One life, no heaven or offer of redemption and everlasting blah, blah, blah! He realises he has to be destroyed so there is no god, heaven etc etc. So, in a very moving scene, he allows his ex-girlfriend to poison him-with rat poison-on national TV to show people his intentions. God is gone so, people realise that they have to make much more effort in this life, because there is no afterlife or forgiveness anymore! This is IT......Maybe, just maybe, Russell T Davis got it right. Perhaps we should focus on the here an now rather than what is to come (if anything is to come!)

I heartily recommend that you get this DVD as it's brilliant!

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#108 Post by Jonesy038 » Fri May 04, 2007 4:15 am

Big Bad Bill wrote: the end conclusion can only steer them to the conclusion that there is nobody watching over them, judging their actions and offering a nice place after we die!
Surely this is the problem - millions upon millions certainly do not see that as the only conclusion. This argument cannot be won or lost. Nobody knows all the answers. I think the reason people steer clear is more that these type of beliefs, as opposed to what our favourite music or food is, can be particularly sensitive and closely held. That is not to say you should shut yourself off to other possibilities, absolutely not, but in practical terms I do think it means people will avoid discussing it on the 'net and such like because it will inevitably result in convoluted argument that often goes round in circles, taking up a lot of time and energy, and people don't want to be glued to an internet forum constantly feeling that they need to post and post some more, in order to defend what they believe.

I do fully agree with you that these things should be open for discussion, but if the suggestion is that there is only one logical conclusion to the debate I am personally not yet at the point where I can agree. Maybe I will be at some point, I'm only young. And we're all still learning.

It shouldn't be taboo, though, you're right.... Didn't see the show you're talking about; something interesting on ITV?! I never thought I'd see the day!

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CymbalSplittingSkinbasher
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PROVE IT

#109 Post by CymbalSplittingSkinbasher » Fri May 04, 2007 6:26 am

Spiritual beliefs have surely been up for scrutiny & discussion for thousands of years so I don't get that. :? There's conferences on it & all sorts of forums & places you can try & squash someone else's beliefs. It's only taboo in places where it's discussion is "regulated or forbidden." Since that's the case, now all we need is absolutely solid scientific proof that there is no God & we need it posted in a unregulated, tabooless medium, so then we can all just get along & live in peace together. If you have a burning desire to get people to believe that there is no God, the best way to do that is to PROVE IT to them, talk is cheap. :mrgreen:

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#110 Post by Falcon » Fri May 04, 2007 1:20 pm

For me, Steve's most penetrating comments on the spiritual life appear in Under It All:

The lyrics develop several ideas, many of which to me, have striking parallels in a single short essay by the late great Metropolitan Anthony of Sourozh*.

See who you are
Deep in the core
:

"If you dare to look into yourself, and if you dare to question how often you act from the very core of your personality, how often you are expressing your own self, you will see that it happens rarely enough."


Under the paint
Under It All

.....
Or is there just nothing
There at all?
:

"During these few minutes of concentration, we must shed everything that is not essential to life. Then of course you run the risk of remaining bored with yourself; all right, be bored. But this does not mean that there is nothing left in us, because at rock bottom we are made in the image of God, and this stripping is very much like the cleaning of an ancient, beautiful wall painting..."


But what do you cover
With your ocean of colors?
:

"...or like a painting by a great master that was painted over in the course of the centuries by tasteless people who had intruded upon the real beauty that had been created by the master."


Paint me your face
And please be revealing
What are you dreaming?
What are you praying for?
:

"Try, then, to discover your own real self and to stand it face to face with God as he is, having shed all false images and idols of God."


In Under It All, there follow a series of prayers or inner babblings that represent contrasting aspects of the human condition that we ALL share to some degree:

Summarised:

Innocence/Naivety (Joey Brider)
Repentance (Sister Ruby Theresa)
Greed, Anger (Guzzo Sockler)
Selfishness (Maria Hendrix)
Arrogance, Spritual Pride (President Ausi Oak/Bin Lenny).


"When it comes to praying, our first difficulty is to find which one of our personalities should be put forward to meet God."

"Prayer is essentially an encounter, a meeting between a soul and God, but to be real an encounter takes two persons each being really himself. To a very great extent we are unreal and God so often in our realationship is something we imagine to be God; and we think that we are standing before him in all truth, whereas we are putting forward someone who is not our real self, who is an actor, a sham, a stage personality. Every one of us is a variety of persons at the same time; it may be a very rich blending, but also it may be an unfortunate meeting of discordant personalities."


Who are you
Through and through?


"Help me, O God, to put off all pretences and to find my true self."

"Help me, O God, to discard all false pictures of thee, whatever the cost to my comfort."

*
http://www.metropolit-anthony.orc.ru/eng/

Most striking to me are the parallel themes of the imagery of a painting, living from the true core of one's self, and the multiple passions and personalities within us all.

Falcon
Last edited by Falcon on Sat May 05, 2007 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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CymbalSplittingSkinbasher
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MORE RAMBLING BABBLE

#111 Post by CymbalSplittingSkinbasher » Fri May 04, 2007 3:42 pm

Ah, come on, that's all hogwash! :lol: :P

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Re: MORE RAMBLING BABBLE

#112 Post by Falcon » Sat May 05, 2007 1:32 am

:lol:

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3/2

#113 Post by Taggart » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:57 pm

I have a question for Steve. You have 3 ear rings in your right ear, 2 in the left. On your Fire Garden CD there is artwork with "3/2" within it. I know you practice Santmat but I am unfamiliar with that. I would appreciate it if you would explain what the 3/2 means.....

Also, I met you in Columbus at the EVO experience. We recorded our group saying one word into a video and there was supposed to be some message at the end of the tour. Still waiting to know what that message was and where I can view it online.

Thanks,

Jason Taggart
Columbus, Ohio

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#114 Post by Bryceybhoy » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:17 am

I find most of the discussion quite interesting, certainly some of the points made by BBB, which I agree with.

I only recently found out that Billy Sheehan is a scientologist.

Pay-as-you-go-religion, as it's called. Each to their own I suppose.

I honestly don't see why we can't discuss religion. Maybe it's Steve's wish that we don't discuss it on the forum.

I, personally, don't believe in god and find the whole believing in the "magic man" in the sky quite ludicrous - yet my favourite band, Extreme, or gary Cherone, is extremely religious and I worship the ground he walks on. As long as people show a bit of respect to other religions and people's beliefs we should all be just fine and dandy.

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#115 Post by Symphon » Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:36 am

<Mike> wrote:start with beliving in yourself.
Amen, that is probably the best thing to do. Believe in yourself and u will find the path on which u must choose.

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#116 Post by leigh01 » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:13 am

Bryceybhoy wrote:I honestly don't see why we can't discuss religion. Maybe it's Steve's wish that we don't discuss it on the forum.
I think its mainly because its quite a sensitive subject. when you think about it there are many different types of religion, some of which beliefs contradict another. so an argument could soon start.
<Mike> wrote:start with beliving in yourself.
Very wise comment.

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#117 Post by miker » Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:43 am

Bryceybhoy wrote:I honestly don't see why we can't discuss religion. Maybe it's Steve's wish that we don't discuss it on the forum.
Very simply because a great deal of people are completely unable to discuss this... only hammer their beliefs into others and attack those who are not like-minded. That goes for Athiest, Spiritualist, Christian (any BELIEF system really)... any of these can be unreasoning fanatics.

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#118 Post by saraht » Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:46 pm

Bryceybhoy wrote:I find most of the discussion quite interesting, certainly some of the points made by BBB, which I agree with.

I only recently found out that Billy Sheehan is a scientologist.

Pay-as-you-go-religion, as it's called. Each to their own I suppose.

I honestly don't see why we can't discuss religion. Maybe it's Steve's wish that we don't discuss it on the forum.

I, personally, don't believe in god and find the whole believing in the "magic man" in the sky quite ludicrous - yet my favourite band, Extreme, or gary Cherone, is extremely religious and I worship the ground he walks on. As long as people show a bit of respect to other religions and people's beliefs we should all be just fine and dandy.
Billy Sheehan is a scientologist? :shock:

It's funny because I strongly agree with the 'each to their own' thing, and yet I find it really difficult to have respect for anyone who's a scientologist.

Maybe the press that scientology has received has been unfair - I've only ever heard negative things said about it... Actually I saw a BBC documentary about scientology last year (don't know if any other UK people on here saw it?) and it was genuinely the most shocking thing I saw on TV all year.

But everyone needs something to believe in, I suppose. (apart from 'themselves'!)

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#119 Post by Big Bad Bill » Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:03 am

saraht wrote:Billy Sheehan is a scientologist? :shock:
That's interesting. I wonder how people can look at the ideas of cults such as Scientology from within and not think, "Hang on a second, spaceships in volcanoes? Surely this is just a bit ridiculous! Somebody's winding me up here! Am I on Candid Camera?" :wink:
saraht wrote:Maybe the press that scientology has received has been unfair - I've only ever heard negative things said about it... Actually I saw a BBC documentary about scientology last year (don't know if any other UK people on here saw it?) and it was genuinely the most shocking thing I saw on TV all year.
Yeah I saw it-with the BBC journalist who lost it? It was shocking and I believe Scientology is going to be banned in Germany, because they're so worried about it. Nutters, saraht, don't worry about them.

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#120 Post by boswell » Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:06 pm

Scientology is no more Potty than most religions, none of them can prove their beliefs to be true.

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