Money and stuff.

This is the forum for all Steve Vai-related discussion including Steve's albums, videos, performances and frequently asked questions.
pataman
Member
Member
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:06 am

Hey guys, just wanted to through some thoughts out there. i dunno, its just that when i saw the new jem, which looks ridiculously awesome by the way, and saw some price estimates i was kind of annoyed. I feel like these days a lot of things are just so much about money.

this was kind of mentioned in an episode of six string bliss a very cool podcast by the way. And its just like kind of this recurring thing now that is seen in a bunch of places that a lot of like being a fan involves money you know.

Obviously things have a cost, but for most people its kind of disheartening that if say i was a millionaire i would be able to have all this vai memorabilia, jem guitar, amps, 20th anniversary stuff, jewel boxes and whatnot.

its like a lot of being a fan these days is about spending money. And dont get e wrong, ill gladly pay the evo premium experience thing the next tour, cause its like my dream to meet steve, and i did pay for the platinum ticket to meet joe. but its just that i can imagine how for most people or at least a lot, that is quite a bit of money. and i dunnno, it seems that i guess there should be more ways fans could get involved and participate without having to spend so much on all kinds of stuff..

I guess what im saying is that, while the music is whats most important, and i do love it and own all of steves records, it would be cool if there were more things for solid fans to do that arent about money.

just a thought. in the meantime, can't wait for the aching hunger dvd and some new music! rock on.
User avatar
EyE
Member
Member
Posts: 1997
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 6:50 am

I understand your point but not everything is too pricey. The Evo package was not that expensive. If you compaire it with other artists who offer such packages it's not that pricey at all. And when you see the pricetagg of a guitar like the Jem20th it's scary because it's a limited Anniversary model so there for a collector's item. Most things are reasonable and goes along with being a collecting fan. It all depends how far you are willing to go as a fan. I would love to own a Jem20th but that's a little beyound my bugget :) . I don't know how old you are but when you are young it's a little harder to collect when your bugget is limited. I had the same thing but over the years as a Vai fan (21 years) I have collected quite some things. So there is hope....also for you :wink:
pataman
Member
Member
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:06 am

yeah i guess your right. i dunno. in university everything seems expensive i guess... oh well. gotta keep eatin mac and cheese....
sonny sixshooter
Member
Member
Posts: 558
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:32 am

Besides, Steve usually stops outside to meet his fans for autographs and photos after the show, all free of charge. So if you don't want the things from the EVO package, that's a possibility, too.
Mikey
Ex-admin
Ex-admin
Posts: 4520
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:51 am

I don't really get the mentality that somehow people are being held to ransom by their fandom. I think this is what you're driving at with your post (although I must compliment you on putting it so articulately.)

There are all sorts of things that I like, and there are all sorts of things I aspire to have. But in the end, they are all things, and I've come to realize that I'll never have all the things I want... and sometimes wanting something is actually more fun that having it.

Luxury items are about money. They are made luxurious because of their price tag. Hey - I'd love a nice Mercedes - but at the moment, it's more money than I can justify on a car. Lexus will make me a car that's really nice too, but for a price I can justify - so I'll go for one of those instead. But Toyota will make me a nice car that will get me where I want to go for an even cheaper price tag. Maybe I’ll get one of those and save the rest of my money for other things I'd like to have. But I wouldn't for a second suggest that Mercedes make cheaper cars just so I can have one. I'll just have to keep working hard. Maybe one day I'll get my Merc. I'm a slave to my desires - not Mercedes.

The same goes for some of the things you're mentioning below.

The Jem20 is a highly limited run of 500. The guitar was created as a commemorative collectible piece. It has a high price tag for a number of reasons: There are very few of them made and they cost a lot to make; they are a collectors item; they are a premium, prestige product; and yes - because they have Steve's name associated with them; and finally, because Ibanez is a business. They make their living from selling guitars to people that want them. All these things contribute to creating a luxury thing.

Still, compare $6666.65 to a PRS, or a high-end Les Paul, or even the new Eddie Van Halen relics, and $6666 isn't a lot of money. There are regular Jems you can buy too - and while these have a premium price tag as well, they are more within reach for most people.

The problem is, that people complain about the high prices, but if the Jem was $999 and everyone had them, people would complain that they are cheap - much like people did with the Jem555 and 333.

Do you perhaps think that buying memorabilia has suddenly become expensive? Being a Beatles fan was expensive too back in the day - and it's even more expensive getting a hold of their memorabilia now too. But demand dictates price.

Regarding the EVO Experience: It's a LOT more than paying money to meet Steve. I know a lot of bands have platinum tickets where you pay $1000 and get a crappy photo with the band (like KISS does) - but that was never what the EVO Experience was about. It's about creating a special experience that goes way beyond a handshake and photograph, but a chance to see how the band prepares for a show, spend a good 45 mins to an hour talking to Steve and asking questions in a group setting; getting to hold and check out EVO and perhaps some of Steve's other guitars, and some cool merch thrown in. I think that's a great deal.

It's all about the perspective that you you give the situation too: You could look at the EVO Experience as Steve "cashing in" - or you could look at the EVO Experience as Steve and his management recognizing something the fans would like, and catering to their wishes. And I think that's true for every band out there who are making extra things available like Platinum tickets, limited merch, etc. They recognize a niche and they are catering to it.

If all you want it to meet Steve, shake his hand and get a photo, then you can wait outside the venue after the show and you might get lucky. There is a cost involved there too: your time.

You state in your post that there should be more ways a fan can get involved and participate without having to spend money. What would you suggest? Any fan can come on this website and see all the content for free, chat with other fans for free, and even see posts left and questions occasionally answered by Steve. But it will cost them a computer to do so. If they don’t have a computer, they could use one at their local library - but it will cost them a bus fare.

There is a sense of entitlement that I see in some people who think they deserve everything for nothing. That's just not how things work. I see people make comments like "hey - I've been a fan of x artist for x amount of years - so I think they owe me something for free". Why? They made something you want, you bought it, and you got to have what they made. The deal is done. You saw an artist in concert, but that doesn't mean they're obliged to meet their fans after the show. You paid for a ticket, they played a show. The deal is done. If you get to meet the artist after a show, that's a PRIVILEDGE, not a RIGHT.

Enjoying anything, and being a fan of anything has always had a monetary cost - unless you're a fan of nature, or just being alive. But then being alive has a cost too. Hmm.. I guess we're seeing a pattern here.

I think the best way to look at it is this: if you're frustrated that being a fan or having any hobby involves money, then want nothing.

If you want nothing, you'll have everything.

Mikey
vai.com
pataman
Member
Member
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:06 am

oh yeah, i mean guys dont get me wrong. i dont mean to single out steve or say that he dopesnt take care of his fans, on the contrary, hes one f the people who takes most care of fans. I will without a doubt get the evo cause steve is someone i definetely want to meet and i am completely fascinated with his music and his art! my comment was more of a general one for music today a a whole. i guess i shoulda posted on the general music section.

anywho. rock on
Mikey
Ex-admin
Ex-admin
Posts: 4520
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:51 am

pataman wrote:oh yeah, i mean guys dont get me wrong. i dont mean to single out steve or say that he dopesnt take care of his fans, on the contrary, hes one f the people who takes most care of fans. I will without a doubt get the evo cause steve is someone i definetely want to meet and i am completely fascinated with his music and his art! my comment was more of a general one for music today a a whole. i guess i shoulda posted on the general music section.

anywho. rock on
Hi again - I'm answering your post above broadly. I realize that you're talking about music as a whole in these times. While I did mention Steve a bit, I see the bigger picture you're talking about - hence I've used real-world examples - and non-musical exmaples.

Mikey
vai.com
pataman
Member
Member
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:06 am

Mikey wrote:I don't really get the mentality that somehow people are being held to ransom by their fandom. I think this is what you're driving at with your post (although I must compliment you on putting it so articulately.)

There are all sorts of things that I like, and there are all sorts of things I aspire to have. But in the end, they are all things, and I've come to realize that I'll never have all the things I want... and sometimes wanting something is actually more fun that having it.

Luxury items are about money. They are made luxurious because of their price tag. Hey - I'd love a nice Mercedes - but at the moment, it's more money than I can justify on a car. Lexus will make me a car that's really nice too, but for a price I can justify - so I'll go for one of those instead. But Toyota will make me a nice car that will get me where I want to go for an even cheaper price tag. Maybe I’ll get one of those and save the rest of my money for other things I'd like to have. But I wouldn't for a second suggest that Mercedes make cheaper cars just so I can have one. I'll just have to keep working hard. Maybe one day I'll get my Merc. I'm a slave to my desires - not Mercedes.

The same goes for some of the things you're mentioning below.

The Jem20 is a highly limited run of 500. The guitar was created as a commemorative collectible piece. It has a high price tag for a number of reasons: There are very few of them made and they cost a lot to make; they are a collectors item; they are a premium, prestige product; and yes - because they have Steve's name associated with them; and finally, because Ibanez is a business. They make their living from selling guitars to people that want them. All these things contribute to creating a luxury thing.

Still, compare $6666.65 to a PRS, or a high-end Les Paul, or even the new Eddie Van Halen relics, and $6666 isn't a lot of money. There are regular Jems you can buy too - and while these have a premium price tag as well, they are more within reach for most people.

The problem is, that people complain about the high prices, but if the Jem was $999 and everyone had them, people would complain that they are cheap - much like people did with the Jem555 and 333.

Do you perhaps think that buying memorabilia has suddenly become expensive? Being a Beatles fan was expensive too back in the day - and it's even more expensive getting a hold of their memorabilia now too. But demand dictates price.

Regarding the EVO Experience: It's a LOT more than paying money to meet Steve. I know a lot of bands have platinum tickets where you pay $1000 and get a crappy photo with the band (like KISS does) - but that was never what the EVO Experience was about. It's about creating a special experience that goes way beyond a handshake and photograph, but a chance to see how the band prepares for a show, spend a good 45 mins to an hour talking to Steve and asking questions in a group setting; getting to hold and check out EVO and perhaps some of Steve's other guitars, and some cool merch thrown in. I think that's a great deal.

It's all about the perspective that you you give the situation too: You could look at the EVO Experience as Steve "cashing in" - or you could look at the EVO Experience as Steve and his management recognizing something the fans would like, and catering to their wishes. And I think that's true for every band out there who are making extra things available like Platinum tickets, limited merch, etc. They recognize a niche and they are catering to it.

If all you want it to meet Steve, shake his hand and get a photo, then you can wait outside the venue after the show and you might get lucky. There is a cost involved there too: your time.

You state in your post that there should be more ways a fan can get involved and participate without having to spend money. What would you suggest? Any fan can come on this website and see all the content for free, chat with other fans for free, and even see posts left and questions occasionally answered by Steve. But it will cost them a computer to do so. If they don’t have a computer, they could use one at their local library - but it will cost them a bus fare.

There is a sense of entitlement that I see in some people who think they deserve everything for nothing. That's just not how things work. I see people make comments like "hey - I've been a fan of x artist for x amount of years - so I think they owe me something for free". Why? They made something you want, you bought it, and you got to have what they made. The deal is done. You saw an artist in concert, but that doesn't mean they're obliged to meet their fans after the show. You paid for a ticket, they played a show. The deal is done. If you get to meet the artist after a show, that's a PRIVILEDGE, not a RIGHT.

Enjoying anything, and being a fan of anything has always had a monetary cost - unless you're a fan of nature, or just being alive. But then being alive has a cost too. Hmm.. I guess we're seeing a pattern here.

I think the best way to look at it is this: if you're frustrated that being a fan or having any hobby involves money, then want nothing.

If you want nothing, you'll have everything.

Mikey
vai.com
wow there mikey calm down, no need to get defensive. all im saying is, and now there seems to be the mistake of taking it personal so perhaops i didnt say it so articulately as you mentioned. is that the "price" put in things now such as evo and stuff is monetary, rather than something else. And as i said before this wasnt directed particularly at steve, because he does do more for his fans than most, if not all do, i mean who would ask theur fans what cd they want next, thats awesome. so no need to get aggravated at all.

what i was saying is that that niche you call, could be somehow done another way, instead of paying money how about what they did for the jem contest, make a donation to steves charity, or write a song if you play guitar and send it to steve in order to get the evo. i dunno. these may be bad ideas, but their just ideas. perhaps bad ones which you think make no sense, but still just ideas.

I think what created such a lengthy response is the feeling that mikey had that im attributing my post at steve or the vai "organization" i think what im saying is perhaps annoyance at the premium companies place on things like "limited editions" or as you say, "the prestige of owning a benz, rather than a toyota."

to sum it all up, by no means do i intend to in anyway complain at or belittle a vai organization which has and im sure will continue to do a lot for the fans. its just a "state of affairs" contemplation. i have a philosophy and a political science degree and will soon have a music degree, and i guess my disdain for capitalism obviously enters into play with my opinions about all things expensive.

ok i've rambled on for way too long. rock on.
Mikey
Ex-admin
Ex-admin
Posts: 4520
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:51 am

pataman wrote:wow there mikey calm down, no need to get defensive. all im saying is, and now there seems to be the mistake of taking it personal so perhaops i didnt say it so articulately as you mentioned. is that the "price" put in things now such as evo and stuff is monetary, rather than something else. And as i said before this wasnt directed particularly at steve, because he does do more for his fans than most, if not all do, i mean who would ask theur fans what cd they want next, thats awesome. so no need to get aggravated at all.

what i was saying is that that niche you call, could be somehow done another way, instead of paying money how about what they did for the jem contest, make a donation to steves charity, or write a song if you play guitar and send it to steve in order to get the evo. i dunno. these may be bad ideas, but their just ideas. perhaps bad ones which you think make no sense, but still just ideas.

I think what created such a lengthy response is the feeling that mikey had that im attributing my post at steve or the vai "organization" i think what im saying is perhaps annoyance at the premium companies place on things like "limited editions" or as you say, "the prestige of owning a benz, rather than a toyota."

to sum it all up, by no means do i intend to in anyway complain at or belittle a vai organization which has and im sure will continue to do a lot for the fans. its just a "state of affairs" contemplation. i have a philosophy and a political science degree and will soon have a music degree, and i guess my disdain for capitalism obviously enters into play with my opinions about all things expensive.

ok i've rambled on for way too long. rock on.
If you have a degree in both philosophy and political science, I would expect that you can discern between someone stating their point and backing it up with examples, and someone being defensive. Furthermore, it seems that your interpretation of my response as being defensive has blinded you to the real points I'm making; and my addressing your state of affairs contemplation.

I'm not being defensive at all, and as I said above, I didn't interpret your post as a personal attack on Steve or the Vai camp. I get what you're saying but I respectfully disagree. The sentiment you wrote about is something I see a lot of (though as I also said - I don't see it usually put as articulately as you did.)

I'm going off and tackling the broader subject using your post as a starting point. And the real crux of my post is not where it refers to Steve, but where I talk about prestige companies creating prestigue products. And I still don't get what's so wrong with that?

But you've brought up further points in your post above where you mention the Jemfest contest: We do this kind of stuff all the time where we make things available, but the money goes to charity. I can't speak for other artists though. I tend to think that within Steve's body of work and activities there is a healthy balance.

We used to have aftershow pass contests on Vai.com for some time until some of the complaining and bickering among fans grew out of proportion and we were getting abusive notes from "big fans" saying how unfair it is because they didn't win. We then stopped doing aftershow contests, but have recently started again. There really is room for all fans to participate there.

So, to round up my post, I'm not taking things personally, nor did I interpret your post as an attack. And I'm not necessarily aiming my response directly at you, but at this kind of attitude in general.

Mikey
vai.com
pataman
Member
Member
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:06 am

Mikey wrote:If you have a degree in both philosophy and political science, I would expect that you can discern between someone stating their point and backing it up with examples, and someone being defensive. Furthermore, it seems that your interpretation of my response as being defensive has blinded you to the real points I'm making; and my addressing your state of affairs contemplation.

I'm not being defensive at all, and as I said above, I didn't interpret your post as a personal attack on Steve or the Vai camp. I get what you're saying and I respectfully disagree. The sentiment you wrote about is something I see a lot of (though as I also said - I don't see it usually put as articulately as you did.)

I'm going off and tackling the broader subject using your post as a starting point. And the real crux of my post is not where it refers to Steve, but where I talk about prestige companies creating prestigue products. And I still don't get what's so wrong with that?

But you've brought up further points in your post above where you mention the Jemfest contest: We do this kind of stuff all the time where we make things available, but the money goes to charity. I can't speak for other artists though. I tend to think that within Steve's body of work and activities there is a healthy balance.

We used to have aftershow pass contests on Vai.com for some time until some of the complaining and bickering among fans grew out of proportion and we were getting abusive notes from "big fans" saying how unfair it is because they didn't win. We then stopped doing aftershow contests, but have recently started again. There really is room for all fans to participate there.

So, to round up my post, I'm not taking things personally, nor did I interpret your post as an attack. And I'm not necessarily aiming my response directly at you, but at this kind of attitude in general.

Mikey
vai.com
You know what, your right. I did misinterpret your post. people who do think steve owes them are wrong. i bought my cd, and my ticket, saw the man play his guitar and left.

There really is nothing wrong with making prestige products.

Your right mikey.
saraht
Member
Member
Posts: 201
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:27 am

So basically you were just annoyed about the fact that you can't afford the new jem! :lol:
SPQR
Member
Member
Posts: 1067
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:36 pm

saraht wrote:So basically you were just annoyed about the fact that you can't afford the new jem! :lol:
thats about it, its life get used to it, you either have it or you dont, and fact is if you dont, you probably never will lol
User avatar
Seraphim
Member
Member
Posts: 1832
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:16 pm

Money and stuff!!!
I wish I can afford a more comfortable house, not a luxury one, only more comfortable.
I wish I can buy a car for me, not a luxury one, only a safe car.
I wish I can join a private hospital instead a social security hospital.
Instead of that I have a small apartment, only left 14 years to pay to the bank, I drive the company van and have to deal with the regular hospital.
But I'm happy with that and I thank to God everyday to have a roof to sleep :P
And to save some money to make awesome journeys to Holland to see the ZPZ show and meet Steve also to meet wonderfull persons from this forum. Also to save some money to make my next trip to London to the masterclass and once again to meet more vai.com members. I'm not rich, only to compare, the EVO experience ticket cost half of a salary of a lot of Portugueses employes (I'm not saying that the ticket is expensive, only that our salarys are short)... but... hey... I'm happy for have this opportunitis 8)
About what "pataman" post, I got what he means after reading all the posts. Yeah, who don't want to have more money to have that stuffs, but life is like that. So, don't be sad to can't buy the Jem, as you can see only 500 are available.
There are other thinks in life that was not expensive and can make us happy!!! Also, a lot of them are for free!!!

All the best to vai.com members and wishes for you ALL be happy :wink:
8)
User avatar
RAI
Member
Member
Posts: 3195
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 5:23 pm

There seems to be a bit of a difference in how the younger generations view the economics of our society. They come up with concepts such as Napster, and download music and movies all day long simply because "things like that shouldn't cost anything!"...
I, on the other hand, sometimes look at things and wonder "how can it be that cheap?". The fact is, people (and businesses) need to make money.
Merchandise and services are not free, and they all cost money to produce. Do you need the merchandise? Probably not. Do you want it?
Most likely. That's when you have to decide how bad you want it, and how hard you want to work for it. Society isn't fair, and never has been.
In the end, as long as you have a healthy life, with good friends and good times, that's what matters. Screw all the materialistic junk!

In regards to the specifics about the JEM20th, I was talking to a friend the other day. We were both "complaining" how overpriced the JEM is. Then my friend said " Well, I guess it's not that expensive. Take Gibson for instance. They take a $1,800 Les Paul, add a 3rd humbucker, slap a '3' vinyl sticker on the body and a 'Pete Townsend' on the headstock. It's now a signature model, and retails for $6,000. And that's not even a Limited Edition..."

Go Ibanez!

Rant over.......


8)
User avatar
Bryceybhoy
Member
Member
Posts: 619
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:28 am

Interesting thread. I agree the Ibanez 20th is crazy money...but it is limited so therefore that kind of price is justified.
The Evo Experience, to me, was expensive but very much worth it. I have great memories and some cool stuff to go with it.
Anyway, compare what Steve charges for gigs and stuff to other bands. Queen, correct me if I'm wrong Mikey, were charging $200 for a ticket for their Paul Rodgers gig, which is a disgrace. U2 regularly charge £90 in the UK. I very much doubt that for an extra £40 I would have met Bono (not that I would want to meet the self-righteous twat).
Just try being a Richie Kotzen fan. He releases a new album every three weeks! I pay more on following RK than I do on my mobile phone :lol:
Post Reply